T Nation

Dieting with Carbs


#1

Ill admit that im a dieting NOOB.I have no problem putting on 5-10 pounds if i really wanted to.
Ive come to a point where i have tried a few low carb diets.I just cannot stick with low carbs.I may do it for a few weeks but in the end i just give up,it just doesnt suit my lifestyle or taste buds.

My question is that im trying to lean up for the upcoming summer.Since i refuse from now on to do any low carb diets my options are limited..or are they?

My goal apart from fat loss is to maintain what i have (muscle size) im not interested in gaining much more muscle (for now). Im currently 6'4 and hover around 255 pounds.

I have never been a big eater.So i was thinking of doing a diet where i consume carbs and protein but keep the calories really low. Just for example say my diet looked like this:

meal 1 & 2 chicken breast & rice
meal 3& 4 fish & sweet potato
protein shake with carbs and fruit in between some of those meals

Now that would be very few calories for a guy my size but i would have no problem with eating so few calories.Always been a skinny kid with not much of a appitite.

What im trying to get at is would the diet i mentioned lead to fat loss AS well as muscle loss.Id be doing my heavy lifting 4-5 times weekly with extra cardio thrown in im just interseted in keeping as much muscle as possible.

Ive read the V-diet and that just sounds brutal and some of the reviews i have seen from a few of the big boys in T-Cell Alpha lead me to believe that this would not be the way to go.plus i like eating food.Having shakes 6 days a week is not my idea of fun.

Any help would be appreciated.


#2

I think first and foremost it’s going to come down to calories in vs calories out. From what I’ve read there might be a metabolic advantage to a ketogenic diet, but not necessarily just a low carb one. Carb cycling is helpful in that on your low carb days you have the high days to look forward to. But if you still insist on not going low(er) carb, then just make sure your calories are below maintenance.


#3

Provided your diet is in a caloric deficit, I can’t see why it won’t work. Just make sure you’re also getting adequate healthy fats. If you’re not losing weight, then try to cut out some of those carb sources.


#4

As long as your in a caloric deficit, you’re going to lose ‘something’. The trick though, is to not have a steady carb intake day after day. I found that it is the quickest approach to your body adjusting and not seeing any results.

I’m sure simply by eliminating the fruit on some days, you will end up with a varying carb intake, enough to keep things humming along for a while.

S


#5

Read Clay Hygt’s article on “Macronutrient Cycling.” I’m currently doing a calorie controlled carb cycling and I vary my calories between 1,900-2,700 (off/lifting) per day and am seeing great results in terms of body composition. I’m visibly losing fat and leaning up but my strength has been steadily increasing. I won’t go as far as saying I’m adding LBM (because I’m in a caloric deficit) but it sure as hell seems like it. The scale has been dropping around 1 lb. a week.

Basically I keep my meals to P+F besides my pre-WO, post-WO shake, and meal following the shake. Carbs are between 150-200g on lifting days. Off days I actually only eat fibrous carbs so this might not suit you, but if you must have carbs, just watch the calories. Healthy fats are more important on off days (they are essential) while the carbs aren’t providing you any benefit aside from your taste buds.


#6

http://asp.elitefts.com/...102034&tid=

"Mini-article from Jamie Hale - interesting take on nutrition.

To be really lean you need to eat clean foods?

By Jamie Hale

This is another myth perpetuated by the bodybuilding community. I’m sure everyone knows someone who seems to eat horribly (Oreos, fries, Doritos) but stays relatively lean. Their food choices may not be the most nutritious, but their calorie consumption is below maintenance. Refer to Chazz Weaver’s “Downsize Me”. Weaver’s experiment consisted of eating McDonald’s every day every meal for thirty days. He lost weight and his blood lipid profile improved. The next time your favorite nutrition guru tells you that you have to eat clean at least 90 percent (90% rule equals 100% nonsense) of the time or you can’t lose weight, tell him he’s full of BS.

According to Endemann and colleagues (2002), the possible reasons that people are fat include sedentary lifestyles, constant availability of foods, and the promotion of highly palatable, high calorie foods by the food industry. I agree with Endemann. Looking at it from the other end, some nutritionists tell us that if we eat clean foods, we don’t have to worry about getting fat when gaining weight. Sumo wrestlers eat very clean compared to most other people. They are perfect models of leanness (obviously sarcasm). Eating too much, regardless of food content, makes you fat. Numerous factors influence the ratio of fat to skeletal muscle gain when increasing weight (refer to the P-ratio.

While I don’t agree 100% with Jamie (especially the cheap shot at Berardi), he is considered to know what he is talking about. So if you want to diet with carbs, I don’t think that should be a problem. Did you ever think about doing carb cycling? You will have days where carbs are low :frowning: but high days as well :slight_smile:


#7

Calories and protein…It really is that SIMPLE.


#8

[quote]hawaiilifterMike wrote:
http://asp.elitefts.com/...102034&tid=

"Mini-article from Jamie Hale - interesting take on nutrition.

To be really lean you need to eat clean foods?

By Jamie Hale

This is another myth perpetuated by the bodybuilding community. I’m sure everyone knows someone who seems to eat horribly (Oreos, fries, Doritos) but stays relatively lean. Their food choices may not be the most nutritious, but their calorie consumption is below maintenance. Refer to Chazz Weaver’s “Downsize Me”. Weaver’s experiment consisted of eating McDonald’s every day every meal for thirty days. He lost weight and his blood lipid profile improved. The next time your favorite nutrition guru tells you that you have to eat clean at least 90 percent (90% rule equals 100% nonsense) of the time or you can’t lose weight, tell him he’s full of BS.

According to Endemann and colleagues (2002), the possible reasons that people are fat include sedentary lifestyles, constant availability of foods, and the promotion of highly palatable, high calorie foods by the food industry. I agree with Endemann. Looking at it from the other end, some nutritionists tell us that if we eat clean foods, we don’t have to worry about getting fat when gaining weight. Sumo wrestlers eat very clean compared to most other people. They are perfect models of leanness (obviously sarcasm). Eating too much, regardless of food content, makes you fat. Numerous factors influence the ratio of fat to skeletal muscle gain when increasing weight (refer to the P-ratio.

While I don’t agree 100% with Jamie (especially the cheap shot at Berardi), he is considered to know what he is talking about. So if you want to diet with carbs, I don’t think that should be a problem. Did you ever think about doing carb cycling? You will have days where carbs are low :frowning: but high days as well :slight_smile:
[/quote]

I have thought about carb cycling but thought id ask here first about having carbs with every meal.

My body has just always reacted better with carbs.Im a pure ectomorph. Most of the low carb diets from what i have seen are/have been recomended by guys have been on the heavier side of the scale eg-Shugart and Thib. I could be wrong though?

Just so much info about low carb diets that it seems to be the new “it” thing to do among the general population. Im sure many bodybuilders have got into contest shape with the protein /carb diet.

Im going to give the diet a go(protein & carbs) with some healthy fats.Im going to keep the calories very low.I can function on low calories no problem at all,having a sit down office job helps as well.
Ill report my stats in a few weeks if anyone wants to know?

Thanks for the help and advice people.


#9

At first I was like, “upcoming summer”?

Then I was like… oh yeah… Australia! Haha!


#10

Have you ever seen the movie 28 Days Later? Amazing how the UK drastically altered in four weeks after the outbreak of a virus. Ok, shitty analogy there. However, the point is most people can afford to make a few ‘temporary’ lifestyle changes that can enable them to launch, and maintain, a 28 day dietary and training assault. You dislike low carb diets, etc. So what?

For 28 days put up with it. When the fat is vanishing it will become much easier. 28 days dude, we can all afford to do it at some point in our iron-pumping life.


#11

people have gotten ripped on carb-based diets for decades. just because low-carb diets are en vogue right now doesn’t disprove this fact.

eat sufficient protein and achieve a caloric deficit and the fat will come off, carbs or no carbs. the biggest determinant of your success will be how well you’ll be able to stick to your diet.

remember folks: harder and more complex doesn’t always equal better. if you don’t do well on low carb diets, DON’T DO THEM


#12

Most people on this forum are nuts are about the low-carb, no-carb diet, personally in the long run I think it’s counter-productive and doesn’t work for most people. Carbs are good for you…GOOD carbs that is and should be a regular staple in your diet. Stick with vegetables, berries, nuts, brown rice and sprouted grain breads.

Stay away from sugars, alcohol, regular bread (even so-called whole wheat), pasta and white rice. Eat lots protein all day long, eat your carbs in the morning and after workouts and you will have a diet you can maintain and live with in the long term.


#13

Cardio?? If your lifting it takes much more to lose muscle then cutting a few calories. Just becareful of lifting too frequenly with high volume, while you may not lose peak strength your strength endurance can fade then you start breaking down the muscles more than want.


#14

I can’t personally achieve truly low carb on a diet, even for one day. It’s just too ingrained (grained, get it?) in my diet. I can do lower carb, to where carbs are maybe 30% of my daily cals or less, but that’s it.

Anyway, ensure you get enough protein. After that, it probably doesn’t matter much as long as you keep the deficit.


#15

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
Cardio?? If your lifting it takes much more to lose muscle then cutting a few calories. Just becareful of lifting too frequenly with high volume, while you may not lose peak strength your strength endurance can fade then you start breaking down the muscles more than want.[/quote]

I will be doing a lot more cardio leading up to summer. Not sure ill have to worry too much about high volume workouts as anymore that 9 sets perbodypart leaves me with colds and other nasty things. Ive tried to be a “volume guy” but it just does not work for me.

I may lower my reps and do a more strength based routine to keep as much muscle as possible during the diet.


#16

[quote]EasyRhino wrote:
I can’t personally achieve truly low carb on a diet, even for one day. It’s just too ingrained (grained, get it?) in my diet. I can do lower carb, to where carbs are maybe 30% of my daily cals or less, but that’s it.

Anyway, ensure you get enough protein. After that, it probably doesn’t matter much as long as you keep the deficit.[/quote]

Mate,i feel your pain. Just one day without carbs for me is like hell on earth,let alone a few weeks. Im not willing to feel like a miserable shit and look like death warmed up JUST to lose a few pounds of fat. Not the best way to go about life.

Ill stick with my carbs and while it may take longer to lose fat this way,its much better for me and my lifestyle.


#17

www.drclay.com/set-your-metabolism-on-fire/


#18

King of Kings, assuming that’s you in your avatar you look pretty lean. I’m also assuming that you don’t have any particular issues with carb tolerance/insulin sensitivity. If that is the case and you don’t do well on low-carb diets, listen to your body.

After a lot of years of different dieting strategies, I finally realized that I really don’t do that well on extremely low-carb diets either, and I don’t have the best carb tolerance. Yet, rather than get very picky with the exact amounts and ratios, I simply consume more overall calories on training days, less on non training days. Specifically, on training days (when dieting) I’ll consume 5 meals (one being my peri-workout protocol), with 3 of them containing carbs (breakfast, pre workout, and peri-workout), the other 2 protein/fats. On non-workout days I consume 4 meals, with only the first meal containing carbs (the carb, in this case being “Pure Karbolyn”, a Vitargo-like engineered carb).

So, on workout days I get ~ 50g. protein per meal (except my peri-workout feedings which in total contain ~80g.)= ~280g. protein. On non-workout days I get ~60g./meal= 240g. I’ve been training so long I no longer actually count calories; I just make sure the protein is in range and use common sense/experience to guide me with the rest.

For dieting I train full body 3 x week, with an 8 x 3, 4 x 6, and 4 x 9 days. This gives me a max strength, functional strength, and hypertrophy day. Thus, the emphasis stays on heavy lifting in order to stimulate the body to retain its LBM while in a caloric deficit. The volume is rather low in any given session, as dieting is a stressor itself and there is no need (or the ability–unless “assisted”) to push volume very far without risking loss of LBM.

Hope that helps,

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