T Nation

Dieting, Protein & Fat?'s

Hey guys I have a question…

I am trying to drop some body fat off of my frame…Cause of my body seeming to be holding onto fat despite exercise and lower calories…I was considering maybe throwing another 50 grams of protein in the mix in there…to boost my metabolism and help muscle growth and repair…

Heres my question…knowing the process for your body to convert protein to fat is very long and inefficient and does not happen under most circumstances…

Would it be safe to say if I added another 50 grams of protein onto my diet (200 cals) that this for the most part would not cause an increase in bodyfat storage…since the process is very long and drawn out and inefficient and only used under certain circumstances…I geuss I am calorie phobic a bit…

If I am gonna add calories cause I am at a sticking point I would rather them be the calories that will help progress and not hinder progress…

I need some input on this…

[quote]Pugsley wrote:
Hey guys I have a question…

I am trying to drop some body fat off of my frame…Cause of my body seeming to be holding onto fat despite exercise and lower calories…I was considering maybe throwing another 50 grams of protein in the mix in there…to boost my metabolism and help muscle growth and repair…

Heres my question…knowing the process for your body to convert protein to fat is very long and inefficient and does not happen under most circumstances…

Would it be safe to say if I added another 50 grams of protein onto my diet (200 cals) that this for the most part would not cause an increase in bodyfat storage…since the process is very long and drawn out and inefficient and only used under certain circumstances…I geuss I am calorie phobic a bit…

If I am gonna add calories cause I am at a sticking point I would rather them be the calories that will help progress and not hinder progress…

I need some input on this…[/quote]

Height/weight/experience?

Height 5’11
Weight 296

Experience…6 or 7 good training years…3 of those using alot of T nation programs…the others strength and powerlifting training for comps…

I was about 255-260 and between 15-18% BF but stopped training after years and years of dedication…lost a few lbs of muscle (although not much cause my LBM calcs are still near where they were back then) bu balooned up to 320 in the course of 2.5 years then now back down to 296 and trying to get back to where I Used to be…

bump

Why don’t you swap out some carbs and replace them with protein.

However, make sure you aren’t undereating a lot in general, and that you are getting enough good fats. If you “try too hard” your body declares an emergency and won’t let go of any fat.

I’m going to go way out on an off topic limb and ponder if maybe the calorie phobia many people have comes from the body rebounding from what it considered an emergency dieting attempt?

Repair the metabolism…

In a nutshell I’d cut back, maybe by a lot, on your carb intake while also boosting the protein. If you drop the dietary fat too much you’ll hang on to it around your waist. Nobody has to tell you to get back in the gym.

[quote]vroom wrote:
Why don’t you swap out some carbs and replace them with protein.

However, make sure you aren’t undereating a lot in general, and that you are getting enough good fats. If you “try too hard” your body declares an emergency and won’t let go of any fat.

I’m going to go way out on an off topic limb and ponder if maybe the calorie phobia many people have comes from the body rebounding from what it considered an emergency dieting attempt?

Repair the metabolism…[/quote]

We must’ve been typing at the same time :-]

my only carbs come from a few small servings of fruit with a protein shake (4-5 strawberries) or an small apple or two a day…the only other carbs sources are maybe a quarter to half cup of kidney beans and black beans …and lettuce and veggies…

[quote]Pugsley wrote:
my only carbs come from a few small servings of fruit with a protein shake (4-5 strawberries) or an small apple or two a day…the only other carbs sources are maybe a quarter to half cup of kidney beans and black beans …and lettuce and veggies…[/quote]

Carbs sound fine. At your weight, you should be fine adding 50g protein. It will help prevent muscle loss while dieting. I think I’m in the majority when I say to eat 1g protein per lb of bodyweight.

Maybe add in some incline treadmill walking, or HIIT if your joints can handle it.

Just remember, it took you a while to gain it, it will probably take you a while to lose it. Don’t sacrifice muscle for fat loss, otherwise your metabolism will come to a screeching halt.

the only problem is…I think it it kinda rediculous to take in 296 grams of protein a day when it only 200-205 of my weight of it is FFM…that seems kinda like excess that will get converted to something else cause my body not using it…Wouldnt it make more sense to base my protein upon muscle weight cause obviously fat doesnt need any protein…

How many calories are you currently consuming?
As said before,don’t cut out all the fat. Your body NEEDS fat-especially essential fatty acids- to process fat metabolism.
Just make sure you’re not drastically cutting back them calories or you’ll become weak,risk losing muscle,and hold on to that Body fat.

[quote]Pugsley wrote:
the only problem is…I think it it kinda rediculous to take in 296 grams of protein a day when it only 200-205 of my weight of it is FFM…that seems kinda like excess that will get converted to something else cause my body not using it…Wouldnt it make more sense to base my protein upon muscle weight cause obviously fat doesnt need any protein…[/quote]

Converted to something else? Like what? Protein still provides calories, and if your dieting, its a calorie source. Just because your getting more than absolutely necessary, does not mean it will not be used.

as I had said I just did not want to consume too much protein soo that my body cannot utilize it all and it gets stored as fat(I know the process is long but it does happen in certain situations) or converted to energy instead of using my fat or glycogen stores…

Around here, seems like the latest fad is to recommend megadosing protein and upping calories to solve everyone’s problems.

You simply need a caloric deficit first, metabolic stimulation and finally sort out what YOU need in terms of macronutrient ratios for your goals.

I’d start at 40/30/30 pro/carbs/fats, bwt x 14 kcal, and utilize smart carb choices and esp timing. Make adustments from there. Take in the largest amt of carbs PWO, a small bit preWO and distribute the rest primarily in the morning and throughout the day. Lots of good nutrition articles here by Berardi as well.

[quote]Radjxf wrote:
Around here, seems like the latest fad is to recommend megadosing protein and upping calories to solve everyone’s problems.

You simply need a caloric deficit first, metabolic stimulation and finally sort out what YOU need in terms of macronutrient ratios for your goals.

I’d start at 40/30/30 pro/carbs/fats, bwt x 14 kcal, and utilize smart carb choices and esp timing. Make adustments from there. Take in the largest amt of carbs PWO, a small bit preWO and distribute the rest primarily in the morning and throughout the day. Lots of good nutrition articles here by Berardi as well.[/quote]

Yeah, it’s a new fad in bodybuilding to consume protein.

Based on your recommendations:

bwt x 14kcal and 40/30/30

296 x 14 = 4144 kcal

4144 kcal x .4 (40% protein) = 1657 kcal from protein

1657 / 4 (4 kcal per gram protein) =

414 grams of protein per day

So no, I don’t think recommending 1g/lb of bodyweight is megadosing.

The general recommendations are between 1-1.5g protein/lb of LBM depending on level of training. If his LBM is 202, then that puts him between 202 and 303 grams of protein per day. I don’t think my recommendation was all that absurd.

[quote]Modi wrote:
Pugsley wrote:
my only carbs come from a few small servings of fruit with a protein shake (4-5 strawberries) or an small apple or two a day…the only other carbs sources are maybe a quarter to half cup of kidney beans and black beans …and lettuce and veggies…

Carbs sound fine. At your weight, you should be fine adding 50g protein. It will help prevent muscle loss while dieting. I think I’m in the majority when I say to eat 1g protein per lb of bodyweight.

Maybe add in some incline treadmill walking, or HIIT if your joints can handle it.

Just remember, it took you a while to gain it, it will probably take you a while to lose it. Don’t sacrifice muscle for fat loss, otherwise your metabolism will come to a screeching halt.[/quote]

I would recommend cutting slowly like modi said. Losing 1-2lbs a weeks is considered healthy fat-loss.

I have been restricting carbs for my comp in april pretty drastically and I can say that it is not fun at all. Low energy, decrease in strength, restless sleep etc. If I could I would do it slower.

Though on the flip side of the equation Beradi says fat-loss is a 28 day all out war. So you decide what works well for you.

I revamped my diet today like you guys said heres the lowdown let me know what you think

…I tried to consume 23-2400 cals today and I had to force-feed myself! I am coming off a low cal diet…so I had to force-feed myself the cals…

Heres the breakdown of my meals

Breakfast
1.25 cups egg beaters and peppers and .25 lbs of chiken breast mixed in
2 servings of quaker rolled oats
10g of Brown sugar splenda
a small bit of smart beat butter/margerine subs

Breakfast Cals= 590 cals protein 65
69 carbs fat minimal

Meal 2 (5 hours later after reading 21st century nutrition)

A couple cups of Spinach with .65 lbs of chicken breast plus fat free dressing

2 servings quaker oats
BS splenda

Butter marg subs

Cals: 495 cals (p and c meal) 80 protein 65 carbs minimal fats

The last three meals of the day are comprised of 3 whey isolate and concentrate protein shakes each with a tablespoon of Smart Balance Omega PB

totaling
about 820 cals 32 fats 111 protein and 23 carbs

Total day approx 2300-2400 cals 260-270 pro ~200 carbs and 56 fats

whats your take of this

I split up the p/c p/f meals the best I could and following dave barrs articles with the bigger meals I waited a few hours longer cause there was still protein floating in my system with that much food…Also according to Berardi(I think) I Consumed a siginificantly larger breakfast and earlier meals and it really curbs your appetite! Then progressing to smaller and more protein and fat oriented meals later in the day…

I will measure myself and see where this goes after a week and adjust my cals accordingly…

What you guys think?

Heres what I had today guys…tampa terry let me know what you think!

Two of my first three meals were comprised of Chicken breast and Brown rice:
Approx(each) 490 cals 51 protein 58 carbs 6 Fat= Total 980 102 pro 116 carbs 12 fat

The meal that I separated the two with was
a whey isolate/concetrate blend:

260 cals 50 protein 3.5 fat and 7 carbs

The next meal was 4 Bodybuilder bons bons

472 cals 32 protein 15 carbs 36 fats (flax seeds and natural pb)

I had a homemade protein bar as a snack about an hour later cause I was taking a 4 hour nap!
118 cals 13.6 protein 8.4 carbs 4.3 fats

Next meal another chicken and rice dish with some broccoli and ff dressing to dip in…

515 51p 58c and 6f

Last meal was after a 20 mins ab workout (I know not post workout quality, but I am about to go to bed!)

.5 cup 2% Cottage cheese , one scoop protein powder, and 4 ounces of OJ…

195 cals 25 protein 20-25 carbs

Total Approx: 2551 274 pro 236 carbs 66Fats

Any suggestions if I should have done this differently?

[quote]Pugsley wrote:
…I tried to consume 23-2400 cals today and I had to force-feed myself! I am coming off a low cal diet…so I had to force-feed myself the cals…
[/quote]

holy crap dude… you were coming off a diet where you were taking in so much less than 2300 calories a day that you felt like 2300 was force-feeding yourself at 300lbs??

even the v-diet required 2000 calories for your size…

I’m not by any means an expert, but I’m pretty sure you could consume 3000 calories and will still be at a significant calorie deficit. Though if you did just come off a phase where you were eating < 2000cals, your current intake might be good for a transition.

[quote]Pugsley wrote:
as I had said I just did not want to consume too much protein soo that my body cannot utilize it all and it gets stored as fat(I know the process is long but it does happen in certain situations) or converted to energy instead of using my fat or glycogen stores…[/quote]

There’s a general or very common problem where people doubtful of the value of higher amounts of protein suggest that there is some amount that is the max the body can “use,” and more than that must be waste, and that amount isn’t big.

But, examining this closely doesn’t work out for that concern. For example, suppose a 200 lb lean athlete who could still stand to cut up a little more is consuming 3000 calories per day, of which 1200 calories is protein (from 300 g, an “oh my goodness” value to protein skeptics), say 400 calories from carbs (100 g) and 1400 cal from fat (156 g.)

Is there some sense in which say the last 100g of protein isn’t being “used” and so nothing positive is accomplished that the same diet minus those 400 protein calories would do?

No. The amount, though large by conventional standards, is principally providing fueling and only very secondarily, mass-wise, replacing lost amino acids. Viewing it as simply dealing with that replacement is missing the big picture.

Protein actually is turned to fat or glucose – different amino acids convert differently – easily enough but there can be advantages to having taken it in as protein originally rather than taking in the same amounts of glucose and fats that might be generated. Nutrient partitioning will be different, hormonal response will be different, steadiness of blood amino acid levels with particular interest on the BCAA’s can be better.

Without taking supplemental androgens, T production is best with fat intake around 40% and still good at 30%. Drop it to around 20% and a price will be paid in this regard. These figures being at typical caloric intakes: high intakes may need no more than those corresponding gram amounts of fat, hypothetically.

So, get the daily fat consumption around this area and then do carbs and protein as you choose, not worrying that there’s some small amount that if going over would be too much. There’s nothing wrong, unless it’s giving too many calories total or to achieve correct total the higher protein is costing other macronutrients from being present enough. Typically 1.5 or 2 g per lb of bodyweight is reasonable for lifters.