T Nation

Diet Plateau

Ive being on a low calorie diet for a long time and lost a lot of fat while retaining a lot of my muscle which was great but i still need to lose some more weight but have came to a hault and cannot lose anymore. Any suggestions would be great.

It seems like my bodys became extremely used to low calories and I probably shouldnt go any lower. Im thinking maybey I should up my claories and then go back down, just for the spike. Like I said any sugestions would be great thanks.

What was your macro break down for your diet? Are you doing cardio? How are you training?

I was following the V-Diet , I do morning cardio and Im currently using the shotgun method

I’ve recently become a fan of carb cycling to help re-ramp fatloss. If your not interested in a cycle approach, consider a possible carb up (re-feed) day.

Would a single day be affective enough and how extreme would it be, as in would I eat my face off or just have slighly more carbs then normal?

what I had initially did was 2gram Carb per lbs of lbm. I lowered protein slightly and avioded fats. I kept my calories near my BMR (actually slightly above). I ate slower digesting, better carbs.

If you can post your diet I would be happy to make some suggestions. But without knowing your diet, training and where you hold most of your fat it would be a crapshoot.

wake up at 12
take HRX, immidiately followed by morning cardio baout 20-30 mins

get home 1 oclock- have shake

3 oclock- steak, salad and water

445- pre workout

5-workout

6-7 post workout shake

8-9 shake, some fruit

and thats it

training right now is the shotgun method

Holding fat in chest/stomach

oh hrx before I go to bed 2

Oh shit 10 g a creatine post workout also sry

How are you not starving? You’re only eating one decent meal per day!

After you do the V-Diet , you can do anything

[quote]W.Laporte wrote:
wake up at 12
take HRX, immidiately followed by morning cardio baout 20-30 mins

get home 1 oclock- have shake

3 oclock- steak, salad and water

445- pre workout

5-workout

6-7 post workout shake

8-9 shake, some fruit

and thats it

training right now is the shotgun method

Holding fat in chest/stomach[/quote]

Well, here goes…I will start with the good, you have come to the right place to get good advice, you have made some progress already and no one can argue with that. OK, I have to be honest, this is not good:
First where you are holding your fat according to your assesment definately suggests you have elevated cortisol, and estrogen.

These usually coinside with (but are not limited to): Not enough sleep (your body’s hormones depend on getting enough sleep), reliance on stimulents (HOT-ROX although a great product can deplete your adrenals if used too regularly and that manifests itself much as you have described a plateau- without going into to lengthy of an explination let’s leave it at cortisol is part of a negative feedback loop, the cardio you are doing is also counterproductive (your body adjusts to any stimulus and it has adjusted to the cardio you are doing, you no longer get the benefit from it because your body is used to it / just the breakdown from it -elevated cortisol).

The chest fat tells me your estrogen levels are high but without knowing the ratio of of tricep skinfold to chest there is no way of assessing if it is due to your own test aromatizing or something else. Elevated cortisol= gut fat. Elevated estrogen=tit fat. So the question now is what to do…Here are my recomendations:

I still don’t know your height, weight or bf% so this is going to be very vauge:
meal 1 Steak/omega 3 eggs/oatmeal
meal 2 Metabolic Drive/primalgreens/flax seeds/rasberries
meal 3 chicken/large salad with basalmic & lemon juice/ strawberries
meal 4 fatty fish/broccoli
meal 5 turkey/pine nuts/ feta (I use ground turkey dice up the spinach and patty the three ingredients into burgers season with garlic salt paprika and grill them)
Pre-workout 1 scoop Surge
during workout 40 grams of bcaa’s
post workout 1 scoop Surge 10grams glutamine 40 grams whey isolate

Training:
look into Charles Poliquin’s lactic acid training protocol. DITCH THE CARDIO!!! Get enough sleep! In place of the cardio simply add some gpp work

Supplements:
Instead of buying HOT-ROX spend that money on a quality fish oil product e.g. Flame out

Awesome, thanks alot

No problem, happy to help. Keep us posted on your progress.

Here is a Charles Poliquin’s recomendation for estrogen detox:

The Essentials of Estrogen Detox

Estrodetox

Incidents of breast cancer, ovarian cancer, and even uterine cancer are on the rise. In fact, all estrogen related cancers are increasing as well as symptoms related to estrogen dominance like endometriosis, PMS, uterine fibroids and benign breast tumors…and estrogen is at the root of all these conditions.

How can estrogen be dangerous? Don’t we all make estrogen? Yes, ladies, we all do-but what really matters is what happens to it once you make it as well as how much your cells and organs are exposed to.

Obviously, as a woman, you are going to automatically have a much higher exposure rate from estrogens produced inside your body, but the environment we live in has so dramatically changed in the last 30 years that you are also subject to extraordinary amounts of estrogen coming from outside your body.

Many man-made chemicals mimic estrogen in our bodies (these are called xenoestrogens) and these act like the most potent and dangerous estrogens. And if you’re wondering if these chemicals are rare, think again…here’s a brief list of some xenoestrogen sources:
Plastic bottles
Carpet fibers
Teflon coating
Pesticides and herbicides
Commercial meats grown with hormones
Birth control pills
Hormone replacement therapy drugs

So what happens to estrogens in your body? The body treats estrogen as a toxin and tries to eliminate it. In the process of the liver trying to detoxify it, estrogen can be converted into some very dangerous metabolites, which research shows may be responsible for the damage to the DNA that can cause tumors and even cancer!

Xenoestrogens are more easily converted down this carcinogenic pathway. These potent and damaging metabolites are also responsible for many of the hormone-related symptoms and conditions mentioned above: PMS, fibroids, etc.

Pharmaceutical companies are trying to create drugs to block the action of these estrogens to prevent cancer and reduce estrogen-related symptoms, but the side-effects can often make things worse.

PROTECT YOURSELF NOW!

Here’s the deal-all of these estrogens, regardless of whether you get them from your environment or from yourself; you MUST get rid of them and you MUST protect yourself from them.

Different nutrients can influence what type of metabolites of estrogen the liver creates. Certain nutrients can also protect your organs from the potent and dangerous metabolites. Some nutrients have even been shown to reverse damage that has been done and shrink tumors. According to the science, four of the most powerful nutrients that work together are green tea, curcumin, lycopene, and d-limonene.

Here’s what the research says:

        Green tea-acts to inhibit breast tumor growth, improves liver detoxification of estrogen1, reduces aromatase and lowers levels of damaging estrogens, protects against estrogen-specific free radicals and carcinogens 



        Curcumin-improves detoxification of estrogen by supporting safe, tissue-protective estrogen metabolite, reduces oxidative damage, inhibition of the growth of breast cancer cells2 



        Lycopene-powerful antioxidant, inhibition of cancer cell proliferation3, reduction of DNA damage from estrogen4,   



        D-limonene-suppresses tumors, reduces tumor size, prevention of mammary, liver, lung and other cancers5, carcinogen removal, reduction in breast tumor growth6, inhibition of mammary carcinomas7, breast carcinoma regression in both early and late stage development8 

After scouring the scientific journals and resources, I am proud to introduce ESTRODETOX! Estrodetox contains powerful levels of all the nutrients listed above, providing outstanding protection from estrogen metabolites and free radicals. The antioxidant capacity of just one softgel is like having 8 fruits and vegetables!

More importantly, Estrodetox helps the liver eliminate, or detoxify, the xenoestrogens and the worst of the estrogen metabolites. Now you don’t have to take dozens of different nutrients, hoping that they might be helping-instead, one Estrodetox per day provides powerful protection based on the science; not infomercials, marketing, and fads.

Did I mention that green tea can also help balance your blood sugar, increase your metabolism, and help you burn fat?..now those are great side-effects!

References:

1 Toxicol Sci. 2003 Dec;76(2):262-70. Epub 2003 Nov 4 Epigallocatechin gallate modulates CYP450 isoforms in the female Swiss-Webster mouse.

2 Verma SP, Salamone E, Goldin B. Biochem Biophys Res Commun. 1997 Apr 28;233(3):692-6

3 Breast Cancer Res Treat. 2007 Aug;104(2):221-30. Epub 2006 Oct 19 Hirsch K, Atzmon A, Danilenko M, Levy J, Sharoni Y.

4 Jpn J Vet Res. 2005 Feb;52(4):173-84. Muzandu K, El Bohi K, Shaban Z, Ishizuka M, Kazusaka A, Fujita S

5 Environ Health Perspect. 1997 June; 105(Suppl 4): 977-979

6 http://www.phytochemicals.info/phytochemicals/limonene.php

7 Cancer Research 54, 3540-3543, July 1, 1994 Michael N. Gould2, Cynthia J. Moore, Rong Zhang, Bingcheng Wang, Wendy S. Kennan and Jill D. Haag

8 Cancer Research 52, 4021-4026, July 15, 1992 Jill D. Haag, Mary J. Lindstrom and Michael N. Gould
<

Thanks that helped alot, what can I do about my cortisol levels?

Laroyal, I’m guessing cortisol can be attributed to lower back / hip fat? That’s the place i’m really having trouble getting rid of. Any suggestions?

No cortisol is lower abs, hips are estrogen and lower back (love handles are tied into insulin.

Outside diet some supplements that help with estrogen are DIM
grapeseed
fish oil
curcumin
for insulin

for insulin you might benefit from
fenuplex
insulinomics
ubermag
r-ala
carnitine with b9 and b12
fiber
and of course…fish oil

dont take the shotgun approach and take all of these!
have a qualified biosig practitioner assess your needs and they can better guide you. I will say though no matter your situation fish oil should be a staple of you supplementation (I use Flameout, krill oil and smart blend (rotated in 2 week intervals)

[quote]laroyal wrote:
No cortisol is lower abs, hips are estrogen and lower back (love handles are tied into insulin.

Outside diet some supplements that help with estrogen are DIM
grapeseed
fish oil
curcumin
for insulin

for insulin you might benefit from
fenuplex
insulinomics
ubermag
r-ala
carnitine with b9 and b12
fiber
and of course…fish oil

dont take the shotgun approach and take all of these!

have a qualified biosig practitioner assess your needs and they can better guide you. I will say though no matter your situation fish oil should be a staple of you supplementation (I use Flameout, krill oil and smart blend (rotated in 2 week intervals)[/quote]

Hmmm, I actually have some grapeseed that’s been sitting on the counter forever, i’ll give it a go on Monday. Also, I haven’t gotten a chance to get Flameout but I had a question concerning generic fish oil (Kirkland brand). For each pill theres 0.5g saturated fat.

Since the EPA and DHA is not very powerful (i think its 180/120 split) I’m guessing I’d need to take at least 10 a day for any significance. But that also means 5g (or more perhaps) of saturated fat just from the fish oil. I’ve been taking at 10 pills, is this possibly a reason for stalled fat loss because of all the saturated fat that comes along? Let me know what you think about this. thanks