T Nation

Diet on Havoc Cycle

Hey I have started a havoc pusle cycle and everythings going great, good strength and size gains, but my recovery time has seemed to slow down and I am sorer than I normally am after workouts, is this normal or could it be that im not eating enough protein.

Thanks for any advice or feed back.

Why are you pulsing?

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Why are you pulsing? [/quote]

Hes probably from one of the other sites.

Bodybuilding.com or something, they are obsessed with this pulsing PH idea.

Which makes limited sense and is a bad plan.

[quote]Westclock wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
Why are you pulsing?

Hes probably from one of the other sites.

Bodybuilding.com or something, they are obsessed with this pulsing PH idea.

Which makes limited sense and is a bad plan.[/quote]

Yah I figured that and agree. I want to hear the OP’s reasoning though. I feel that hearing someones thoughts before sharing ideas of my own gives good insight on the level of understanding of the user.

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Why are you pulsing? [/quote]

Can you exlplain what pulsing is? I haven’t heard that term used on this site before.

[quote]Game Time wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
Why are you pulsing?

Can you exlplain what pulsing is? I haven’t heard that term used on this site before.[/quote]

Just like the name suggests, one isn’t running it every day… It’s a little more common with superdrol as the sides tend to be greater but apparently OP is doing it with epi. Basically one doses on workout days only… running a few weeks longer than a standard cycle but less time on each week.

ed - OP, nobody can say exactly what your issue is, particularly when you ask us if you aren’t eating enough protein but don’t describe your diet. You should be eating more than normal though.

Havoc is relatively dry so sore joints & random pains happen. Also keep in mind that it isn’t like a strong AAS such as test wrt recovery. Make an extra effort to stay hydrated and toss in some creatine if you want to help your muscles hold more fluid.

[quote]Game Time wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
Why are you pulsing?

Can you exlplain what pulsing is? I haven’t heard that term used on this site before.[/quote]

Just because I like this link, not because I’m an asshole:

[quote]DOHCrazy wrote:
Game Time wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
Why are you pulsing?

Can you exlplain what pulsing is? I haven’t heard that term used on this site before.

Just because I like this link, not because I’m an asshole:


[/quote]

haha well played, i’ll know for next time.

I knew you guys would have a problem with me pulsing. Basically, its because im looking for a extra kick without as many of the sides or as much test shutdown. But its working, my lifts have gone up every workout, and I’ve added five reps on to the same weight as I used before on my bench (my shitty gym only goes up to a awful 25kg dbs so I always go to failure but its ok seenings as I am no where near you guy’s lifts.)

Thanks for the creatine idea, but thats not gona happen because of lower back pumps that creatine will ramp it up to a new level, but i am going on creatine during pct. Im not having problems with joints but as soon as I do i will jump on the glutamine.

Fair doos on the diet thing, im eating a large bowl of oats and cottage cheese for breakfast, pre and post workout (I live of the stuff). lunch 4 egg sandwich, and dinner changes, chicken curry pasta and beef, that sorta thing really, and i snack a bit.

O and go ahead about lecturing me about pulse because I am going to do another cycle, and im open to opinions.

haha i love that google thing, its so true gota use that more.

O yea and I have got a account on bobybuilding, not to say that I only belive in pusling PHs, I was planning on doing a streight cycle but changed my mind a week before. I am open to all opinions.

And I do rate this site above bodybuilding.com but it got me started out and has some good shit on it so i still use it.

I don’t mean to sound rude, but how reps do you get before failure with 25kg/55lb dumbbells? It better be quite a bit.

It also doesn’t sound like you’re eating enough. Provide us with a better/exact breakdown of your day to day diet, and don’t exaggerate.

yea I know I know 25kg is nothing, today I did 20reps probablly coulda pushed it to 21 or 22, My 1rpm is 100kg/220lb on flat bench press. My lat pulldowns are 190lb for 10 reps, don’t know 1rpm.

To be honest I can’t give you a to exact breakdown of my deit, but I will do my best, yea my last one was abit shit.

Breakfast

Porrage oats 1 1/2 cups,(tea cups, im english I know its so true about the tea)
3/4 cup of cottage cheese
100ml of milk

Snack 2 slices of wholegrain toast + butter

Lunch 4egg sandwich

pre workout
same as brealfast + protein shack (phd’s pharma whey)

20mg of havoc

Post workout

same as pre

Supper (sorry had to play along with the English thing)

Large bowl of chicken corma curry
or
spagetti bolenaze(im awful at spelling)
or
1 1/2 fillets of salmon about 300g roughly of sweede and sweet potato, spinach and green beans.

Al of the above is honest, deit may varry slightly but thats bassically it. Theres just no point in lieing its not gona help me.

I wouldn’t be surprised if pulsing a steroid with such a short half life will lead to more side effects because of the fluctuating blood levels.

Havoc is pretty much side effect free while on cycle but there’s a good chance that acne will become a problem because of the fluctuations.

I consider pulsing a steroid with a 4-8 hour half life similar to injecting test prop E4D; it’s just shoddy theory behind the whole thing.

You are definitely not getting enough protein (and no where near enough fat) unless you weigh less than 120 pounds.

Breakfast is sounding particularly light. The easiest thing for now is to bump your portion size wherever you can, eat another meal / snack after supper, & add in some additional snacks like nuts throughout the day for some quality protein / fat. Try to take in some quality fish oil & EVOO, too.

Btw, never heard of back pumps off of havoc, though I suppose it’s possible. You’d be in a world of hurt w/ dbol…

I still don’t think you’re eating enough.

This makes us feel like you aren’t ready for any AAS/PH’s.

Alright, I will up the fat and protien, starting now. Thanks for the advice. I’ll tell u if its doing the job in a couple days.

Really you’ve never heard of back pumps, I’ve seen people asking for help with them on forums all the time, I started getting them two days ago so I started on taurine and thats done the job.

Yea the “To be honest I can’t give you a to exact breakdown of my deit, but I will do my best, yea my last one was abit shit.” commment is because Im somtimes out in the day so the diet changes, and I snack on protien bars and high protien sandwichs sandwiches (i.e the 1 with the most protien in it in sainsburys normally bout 40g), thats the only reason I put that.

I haven’t heard anything like that about pulsing before but it sounds like u know your shit. So bassically what your saying there are the sides are gona be the same and long term sides may be more, with a lower net gain but less of a shutdown?

I could always cut this cycle short and start up on a full out one, or use it as a leed in to a full one.

My freind did a havoc pulse cycle and gained 6kg er i think 13.1 or .2 lb of a pulse with 1 bottle of havoc, (he’s a powerlifter and defenatlly isn’t new to weights so I thought that was quite impressive considering he was stuck in a plateau)

[quote]harrytipper1215 wrote:
Really you’ve never heard of back pumps, I’ve seen people asking for help with them on forums all the time, I started getting them two days ago so I started on taurine and thats done the job.
[/quote]
They’re common with dbol & superdrol, but I’d never heard about them w/ epi. Then again, I wasn’t looking.

[quote]harrytipper1215 wrote:
My freind did a havoc pulse cycle and gained 6kg er i think 13.1 or .2 lb of a pulse with 1 bottle of havoc, (he’s a powerlifter and defenatlly isn’t new to weights so I thought that was quite impressive considering he was stuck in a plateau)
[/quote]
Those sound like pretty good results. Bet he ate a lot :wink:

Unlike Bonez, I don’t think you’re going to harm yourself by pulsing, as blood levels of havoc are already very short-lived, and I imagine that you can run it like this without becoming suppressed, unlike with test, but hey, I respect his opinion.

I think that pulsing is totally unnecessary because havoc is relatively weak (at least to me) & you’d be theoretically limiting your potential gains.

Yea I know he must be one of the lucky ones that it has a huge (pardon the pun) effect on (lucky bastard).

Glad you don’t think it will have any effect on the sides.

Havoc has effect me mainly in strenth as I said I’ve done 3 chest workouts and on every one my reps have gone up by 2 or 3 reps, same with all my other lifts too, I’ve gained 3/8 of a inch on my arms, and 5 pounds on the scale since the 23 of march, but im not sure if the weight gain is in fat or water retention im can’t really see the gains, I have a feeling im eating to many carbs so I may relax on them and start munching down the chickens.

I understand that I will be limiting gains but I think its a fair trade for less shut down and less sides (asuming that is the case).