T Nation

Diet Dilemma

Hey guys, I’m 17 years old, been lifting since 13 or 14. I’ve always been fat…pretty darn fat until last year when I was measured at 18% bodyfat. Now, that’s still fat, but not as much as I used to be. Well, this summer I had a very physically demanding landscaping job and took stacker 3 occassionally, which has put me at 156 lbs. at 12% bodyfat. Problem is, I’m still fat. Basically my gut is the only real problem. When I flex I can see all six of my abs poking through nicely, but when I relax it’s just flab.

So, I took advantage of the TMan discount and bought one bottle of Methoxy and one bottle of T2, along with ZMA and some classic Grow. I even had to buy a multivitamin, since my parents survive on little debbie snacks and potato chips. I then began my interpretation of the Fat Fast diet. I’m only eating 1000 calories a day–350 come from the Grow protein shake in the morning. Usually in the afternoon I’ll have bacon or shrimp instead of the shake to keep the carbs down. At night I take around 300 calories worth of flaxseed oil, then ZMA. T2 is used 3 times per day, and Methoxy twice. I’ve been doing this for 4-5 days now, and I’ve dropped down to around 150. I feel less bloated, I look a little more cut, but I can still pinch an inch. I haven’t cheated at all, except for an apple one day. Do I need to follow the diet exactly as it says for it to work?

Also, I read a recent article about how cheat meals promote fat loss. Would it be advisable for me to pig out at the China Buffet once every 7 days or would it just set me back?

Going off on another tangent, I am very carb sensitive, or maybe I just eat too many–I love chips and salsa, and they were a staple in my diet. I also only got around 1500 calories on an average day–of course there were 4000 calorie binges, but not often. How am I supposed to recover from this caloric deficiency on top of Fat Fast after I’m off the diet? I need answers, lol

Hold on there cowboy! Are you even lifting? You mentioned nothing about a training program? I seriously doubt you have read ALL the inforamtion here at TMAG. I could pick apart this post, but I’ll be nice. Get started on the FAQ page, check out all the Shugart and Berardi articles. I really don’t think Fat Fast is the answer here. Besides, such a drastic diet calls for a major androgen and only one bottle of Methoxy will not suffice. Try like 5. But that’s not the problem. Do you realize you’ll canibalizing yourself right now? If your just trying to get “cut,” as so many desire, I think your killing any long term progress. Just do me a favor and read everything here before you post another thing like this. Sorry. We All have to learn here and it’s up to you to do it pal.

You are 17 still a baby. The only thing I can tell you is keep reading and experimenting, the fat fast is a good start, it will teach you a lot about your body (and what it needs hehe). But… it won’t come instantly, and it won’t come easy. Think long term. Search the forum for answers on your fat fast questions, look up “coming off of fat fast” and you’ll get a few hits.

Sorry, I thought Fat Fast was a sound plan. I lift 3 times per week and I also do cardio 5-8 times per week. I’m thinking from now on if I only have fruits, vegetables, and some bacon for breakfast, a chicken salad shaker for lunch, and a protein shake with some grow bars and steak for dinner, I will maintain muscle while losing fat a little slower.

 12 % bf is better than a lot of guys ull see at the gym. R u getting obsessed with getting ripped? Uve obviously come a LONG way. A 6 % bf loss is huge. 
 Why do you want to keep going down though? Ur 150 lbs! I dont know how tall u r, but if ur at least 5'10, u shold put on some serious mass, not get obsessed with dropping fat. U dont wanna be that skinny pussy who gets beat up by everyone and has to special order XX small tees to show off ur arms. Seriously, u need to focus on gaining size - if u do it smartly u shouldn't gain a lot of fat with it. Besides its no fun showing off ur bis to all the girls if ur veins consist of half ur arms size if u know what i mean. when ur big and mean u can focus on the lean part. Plus chicks dig big guys.

Yes, obsessed is probably the word. I’m a wrestler. Also, for some reason, I don’t look like a pussy at 150. Maybe it’s my bone structure or something, but everyone thinks I weigh 170 or 180. Also, is it possible to put on muscle using the T Dawg diet at maintenance calories? I figured this would be a good version of the diet to put on a few pounds of pure muscle and keep the fat off.

 Buddy, first off, u DON'T eat 3 times a day. U eat 6 times a day. Thats the way big boys do it - thats the way YOU'LL do it wether u wanna get big, or get cut up. Get used to it. Second, u DON'T grow muscle while cutting up. Nor do u grow muscle while putting on zero body fat. Get used to it. I don't care if ur on steroids. If you wanna put on muscle, even just an itty bit of muscle u have to up your calories beyond ur maintenance evels. Cut the cardio. Damn it, 8 cardio session a week? U go to the gym to do cardio more than once a day? If u've read T-MAG, U'd know some of the big pros at T don't really recommend u do a lot of cardio. Some even reccomend u DONT do cardio while cutting up as it increaes ur cortisol levels which equals muscle down the drainer which equals slower metabolism. Seriously. Take a look at meltdown training. God ur all over the place in ur post. The ony protein u have in ur breakfast is that of a few slices of bacon? I can see how that would work well for,well, a dwarf, but ( unless ur one), I seriously recommed u take in at least 25 grams of protein with every single one of ur 6 meals ( 25 times 6 equals 150 lbs equals 1 gram of protein per lb of body weight) As for ur comment about looking 180 lb at 150 lbs. I don't care what your bone structure is - ur still just a straw. get used to it. Now put on some mass and THEN talk about getting cut up. Maybe then ul pose some challenge when u wrestle. I know, im an asshole. Good luck.

Okay. Now I know some about your training. First off, at 17 and your size I would concern myself to pure muscle gain. Muscle is your number one ally in long term fat loss. And at 17, mass gains come rather easy (But not on Fat Fast). You can stick to the basic compound movements (Coach Davies) and pack on a good foundation on which to build in the future. As for diet, personally I would eat just over maint. But, if your still intent on getting cut or lean, I would eat just under maint. You could hang on to your mass gains easier and you could make this more of a long term plan. Fat Fast on the other hand, is a pure last resort in my opinion. Check out Berardi’s Don’t Diet. I am a big fan of this diet. It’s easier than most, teaches you good food choices and planning, and is still slighty anabolic. Also, you might want to include less volume in your cardio and change over to HIIT. Lastly, if your looking for some good sups, you’ve found the right place. Stick with the T2Pro for fat loss (maybe add an ECA?), if you $ allows buy about 5-6 bottles of Methoxy. It’s not a must for your age, but it makes everything easier-holding/building muscle, leaning out. Lastly, keep with the GROW! So now, go check out the diets here, the sup. roundup, most all training articles, and most anything else that tickels your fancy. Good Luck!

Forgot some stuff: keep on bringin da EFA’s boy! Get some fish oil caps. as well. Read all the articles here on Fats. I love Fats and you will too after you’ve done this.

Hold on there. Doest grow have a significant amount of carbs which are supposed to give u THE POST-WORKOUT nutrition your body needs, i.e. replenish ur glicogen stores and facilitating protein uptake to the muscles as well as water for hydration? 
 ok, go read carbohidrate roundtable. U shold come out with a good idea about wht to do with carbs. Didnt you mention u take in your grow at night, as in dinner? If ur SERIOUSLY trying to get cut up and dont give an F about my advice to gain some serious muscle first, then ur carb intake shold be, well, LI-MI-TED. Stick to zero carb protein powders if u use it for meals other than post workout nutrition or maybe ur first meal of the day and add some healthy fat to make sure u get a sane ammount of calories. That said, Grow is a great prtein powder WHEN ur trying to put on serious muscle or as post -workout nutrition. Since i dont see 'grow muscle', 'put on serious size', or any simliar conglomerates of words ( yeah i know expnsive words), u shold stick to low carb protein powders.Unless ur using the low carb grow, in which case everything i just said makes no sense and i would appreciate if u just ignored it. But ONLY in that case. 

Thx for the advice guys, and yes, 8 cardio sessions per week. We have morning wrestling practice where we do stairs for about 30 minutes. In the afternoon, i would count 2 and a half hours of wrestling as a cardio session, and we do this 5 times a week. Little bit of treadmill thrown in there too. And, in case you weren’t aware, wrestling is a sport based on weight classes. Seeing as how I am 150 lbs–2 lbs off of the max weight in my class–which is 152, I do pose a threat. One more thing–would T2 and and\or an ECA stack while on a mass gaining diet help keep the fat off or would it just screw up my mass gains?

Personally I like a little ECA in my routine most all the time. Don’t get me wrong though. Don’t abuse this stuff. I usually take less than half a dose when not cutting. So with that said, the T2Pro is fine, but I would limit my ECA if trying to put on mass because it would kill off any calorie surplus. On the other hand though, yes, it would keep you lean. Just at the expense of slower mass gains. I still don’t know EXACTLY what it is you want to do though.

 For the last effing time - Ur EITHER trynig to gain mass OR trim down. To gain mass u NEED to consume more calories than you burn. If ur taking in thermogenic supplements these will accelerate ur metabolism and cause you to burn more calories than u otherwise burn (hence the fat loss effect).If u increase ur caloric intake by 500 cals a day AND take in  the thermogenic supps u listedur simply going to burn those calories and no muscle will grow - Especially with 2 cardio sessions a day. U have to make up ur mind: fat loss or mass gain? Trust me, if doing both at the same time was easy everyone would be doing it. First ud better be breathing in steroids. plus ur calorie intake would have to be just so, so that its enough to build a noticeable ammount of muscle, but just enough so that no decent ammount of fat will show up as well. And even then all u can do is really minimize ur fat gain. Thats just my two bits.

First of all, you are 17 so your body is going to hold on to a certain amount of fat, nothing you can do about that. Second you are lifting 3 times a week, and training for wrestling 8 times a week, so your your body is going into starvation mode, due to the lack of calories, and will not give up the fat without a fight. Third you are a wrestler, you need calories to keep your energy levels up. With your activitly level, you should be eating around 2500 calories maybe more. You need to find out what your maintenance calories are, and then adjust them to fit your bodies needs. Check out articles by John Berardi, and “Foods that make you look good Nekkid”. What are you doing in the gym? You should be doing compound, explosve style lifts (squats, deads, cleans, snatches etc). Check out articles on “RenegadeTraining”, and anything by Coach Davies. Another article you should look into is "Ripped Rugged and Dense "by Joel Marion.

I hit post to soon.

With the exception of Grow, Surge, fishoil, flax oil, multivitamin and maybe powerdrive, put the supplements away until you get your diet and training in order.