I’ve been reading the Bonds thread with much interest and it raised a question for me …
… did Michael Jordan do drugs?
I’m not getting into the whole - so what? and who cares? bit - I’m just wondering … could an athlete dominate a sport as he did - Naturally?
For that matter - did Michael Johnson run the 400 and 200 naturally either?
Sure there’s the whole ethical argument - but putting that aside … who is clean and who isn’t.
Sure - I expect some heat over this - but once more - I ain’t judging anyone - just wondering - can anyone be like Mike?
He dominated right out of college. His team dominated when he had the right pieces around him. If hard work is a steroid then he did.
Michael Johnson was most def. on steroids. Maybe not much but I bet he used them. You should go to Charles Stanleys website and buy Speed Trap. It’s about Ben not Michael Johnson but he lets you know the facts about the sport. Good read! And only 10 bucks.
I believe that it is possible for both of these athletes to have been drug free. For jordan it is even more likely.
when he was coming up through college, basketball players were not looking to get big and bulky, which is what most people thought they did, and they can. Remember jordans dominance wasn’t in physical dominance, there were plenty who could jump just as high as he could. Jordan dominated because his basketball skill was far beyond that of other players.
Johnson could have seen an improvement in speed from steroids. Really hard to tell the dude had the genetics for running really fast so his times could be legitamate. Also he wasn’t the “Biggest” sprinter there were plenty more muscular guys out there. Definately some of them either were or had juiced, i’m not sure about johnson though.
NO! It was his shoes that allowed him to be so good!
Did he use drugs? I don’t care, but I doubt it.
Jordan is the most overrated player in NBA history…(putting on a flame retardant suit)
Was he the best ever? Up there, but I don’t consider him the consensus best ever.
-Nobody in NBA history had more foul calls called in their favor in NBA history
-Nobody intimidated referees and league officials more than Jordan. If he didn’t get the call he wanted, he got the next three in a row.
-He was a mass marketing machine that couldn’t be touched, on or off the court. Nobody was allowed to defend him aggressively.
-He sold so much merchandise, and was so valuable economically, that he was protected more than any other player.
Skilled? Yes. But not more than many other players. Big heart? yes, but not more than other players. Determined? Yes, but again not more than many other players.
sonny are you crazy? “not better than any other player”. getting foul calls given in your favor has nothing to do with SINKING HUNDREDS OF GAME WINNING SHOTS. and you obviously don’t remember all the controversay about people tapping his elbow for years while he shot, he would get no calls for that.
he’s better than 99.9% of nba players. you can make a case that he isn’t better than oscar robertson or wilt or bird, because these players were also better than 99.9%.
and his fadeaway, perfect. so dangerous, no one could get their hands on it. his fadeaway is equal to a 105mph fastball, just almost impossible to defend it.
as for roids, most basketball player during his time as a rookie/in college etc were afraid of the weight room… who knows if he did or not but i seriously doubt it…
(cant see what im typing, i hate it
nobody could defend jordan, shit, he dropped 40 with a severe flu and could hardly walk.
Michael Johnson may or may not have used but IMO he did. But that makes him no different to most of the people he was racing. What set him apart was his extraordinary ability.
Just because he wasn’t bulky with huge muscle mass doesn’t mean he wasn’t using. Size gain is dependent on dose, type of steroid, and calorific intake. Also Michael himself was concerned that he was getting too big during 2000 and tried to shed some muscle.
Sonny, you must be a Knicks or Cavs fan.
here is my take on roids in pro atheltics.
there are a lot of us average guys here at t-mag that juice simply because we want to look better. pro athletes have millions of dollars, stats, and championships on the line. if i were a pro athlete i would be juiced to the gills.
that said i cannot point the finger at any athlete and accuse them of using becuse i have not seen them do it with my own two eyes. it would not surprise me if any pro athlete were on. especially in sports like football. where size, strength, and speed are of utmost importance.
i think its funny how baseball players get accused of juicing, yet football players are 340 lbs, and can run faster than me!
Sonny mind explaining who were better than jordan? who was the best ever? wilt is a good second choice but no one active or past can be considered better than mj, even without the hype and aids he got.
As a Chicago native who sat through 80% of the home playoff and finals games, I respectfully disagree with Sonny.
In regards to wether he used. Don’t know, probably couldn’t care less. His work ethic was second to none. He and Sweetness were in a class by themselves.
sonny are you crazy?
-Nope. Just a Knicks fan
And a basketball fan in general.
Good Call PGA!!!
“not better than any other player”. getting foul calls given in your favor has nothing to do with SINKING HUNDREDS OF GAME WINNING SHOTS. "
-He was money, I don’t dispute that. I can’t accept the fact that no matter whether he drove to the basket or took a jumper, he got the call 99% of the time-more than any other player in NBA history.
“and you obviously don’t remember all the controversay about people tapping his elbow for years while he shot, he would get no calls for that.”
-Hahhaha! You have to be KIDDING me! Jordan was the biggest WHINER in pro sports…and IT WORKED!
Whatever he complained about, he got
Elbow tap, ha!
“he’s better than 99.9% of nba players. you can make a case that he isn’t better than oscar robertson or wilt or bird, because these players were also better than 99.9%.”
-Yes, we agree here. Better than almost all except for a few.
"and his fadeaway, perfect. so dangerous, no one could get their hands on it. his fadeaway is equal to a 105mph fastball, just almost impossible to defend it. "
-You are correct. Absolutely unstoppable.
I may have to retract what I said about Jordan being the biggest whiner in pro sports…
That would have to go to Big CHief Triangle, Phil Jackson, who did a lot of his whining for him.
I remember the SportsCenters when the Bulls would be in the finals, and he’d complain about every f’n foul in the post conference-whether they won or lost!
And yes, I realize the irony in that Jackson played for the Knicks’ championship teams of the 70s
(McGeeser, I apologize for the hijack)
who was the best ever? I hate these kinds of ?s, because they are bar questions, everybody has their opinion and nobody can be proved right or wrong.
That said…I’m thinking some combination of Magic, Bird, Wilt, Kareem, Jordan, Shaq, Roberston, Maravich, West, maybe Dr. J.
Maybe Jordan IS the best ever but IMO he’ll always be the most overrated.
BTW- Why is it that centers don’t get the respect they deserve when it comes to all-time best debates?
Sonny S, now those are some fighting words. I was a huge Jordan fan, and Im not from chicago, but back to the original topic. I would say michael johnson was probably on, but no one can say 100%. If anyone is intrested in this tpic they might want to check out the Charlie Francis interview on this site, i think its called ‘rocket scientist’. Here is a excerpt from it
T: We like to joke at T-mag that the scientists administering the drugs to the Olympic athletes need gold medals of their own. Are there any clean athletes left at the Olympic level in sprinting?
CF: When I testified at the Dubin Inquiry all those years ago, the information I had was that the number of athletes using performance enhancing drugs, at the Olympic level, was about 80%. The IAAF secretary, John Holt, said that my charges were “wildly exaggerated” and said his research showed it was only 30 to 40%, which he obviously considered to be acceptable. Whether it’s 30, 40, 50, or 100% is immaterial. The dividing line is not left and right, with the drug free on one side and the dirty cheats on the other. It’s divided horizontally with those above the line on the drugs and those below, perhaps being clean.
T: So would it be fair to say that only the losers are clean?
CF: If anyone is clean, it’s going to be the losers. The irony becomes that in order for an athlete to be an anti-doping advocate he must be, as a general rule, on drugs! How else would he rise to such a level of prominence so that he would have a platform from which to speak?
As for Michael Jordan I doubt it, but I don’t know how many basketball players are on. I wouldn’t care either way.
sonny, was jordan a bigger whiner than starks?
Andrew1, I’ve already heard all the fighting words from my close friends, who think I’m nuts. Fuck them, they’re from Boston.
Call me when you win a World Sries, bitches!!
That’s a joke btw. Even though I’m from NYC, I hate baseball, so the Yankees don’t do shit for me.
One of them idolized Michael Jordan and Michael Jackson growing up. Now that Michael’s been caught coming in little boys, I tease him about it mercilessly, and tell him its only a matter of time before that bitch MJ gets found out too!
iamnobody- You’re kidding me, right?
Anyway, I lost all respect for Starks, and Riley.
Game 7, NBA finals, Rockets vs Knicks.
Starks goes 3 for 17 in the biggest game of his life.
Riley leaves him in the whole game.
Fuck you Starks! Fuck you Riley!
The biography of an overrated player:
Six-time NBA champion (1991-93, 1996-98)
NBA MVP (1988, '91, '92, '96, '98)
10-time All-NBA First Team (1987-93, 1996-98)
All-NBA Second Team (1985)
Defensive Player of the Year (1988)Nine-time All-Defensive First Team (1988-93, 1996-98)
Rookie of the Year (1985)
All-Star MVP (1988, '96, '98)
Two-time Olympic gold medalist (1984, '92)
Not to mention at age 40 he proved what he didn’t have in hops he had in heart and put up some nice numbers.
Sure Jordan got to the line a lot in his career, but anybody who attacks the basket as much as Jordan does is going to get fouled.
Was Jordan the best in the game? Who knows. But overrated? Come on.
Anderson- you already know my feelings re: Jordan, so it should be obvious I don’t respect Jordan’s title wins as much as others.
The Olympic victories? So what. We had every top player in the world on our team. BFD.
I mean overrated as in the undisputed best of all time, which is what many consider him to be.