T Nation

Did Israel Have a Choice?


It was brutal and inevitably there were civilian casualties among the many legitimate targets destroyed.

What else could Israel have done?

You do get the impression that Hamas who have been continually goading Israel by firing rockets and mortars into their settlements were hoping for such a reaction from Israel - and it's for this reason that I now believe that Israel have the right to defend themselves with military action.

Another thing which is on my mind at the moment is that here in the UK we have muslim clerics openly stating that anyone who dies fighting Israel will gain paradise... how can there ever be peace in the Middle East when muslims leaders are giving out this kind of message in public.


The Israeli public are not blood-thirsty zionists, but thanks to the media it will appear so.
You should take a look at how the European media responded. There is so much jew-bashing, next week they may suggest that every citizen goes and desecrates synagogues and jewish shops.

Hamas wanted this military reaction to get the bleeding heart libs on their side. Hopefully, Israel finds legitimate targets to eliminate and takes out their enemies.


They had a choice. They made the right one. They could have made the wrong one and allowed Hamas to keep firing rockets and mortar with no response whatsoever.

Hamas also had a choice. Several choices actually. Not only do they choose how they act militarily. But they choose to where to place these schools. They purposely keep them near targets. In the past it has been even worse. Hamas has long used innocent Palestinians as human shields, purposely firing missiles from homes, schools, and community centers. Knowing and wanting its citizens to get killed in the crossfire to make Israel look like assholes to the ignorant when they are the reprehensible ones.



The reality is that Israel would not be bombing Gaza if not for the daily rocket and mortar attacks into Israel.

One sad fact, though...there are no "winners" or "losers" here; just losers.



Agreed. There are no winners. Just a terrible, terrible situation.


Yes I have to agree with you on this, the media in Europe particularly the BBC are criminal in their reporting of this and other political/religious stories. One column had the title "Israel Addicted to Violence".


Little has changed in Europe since the 1930s.


The America media's not much better. I don't think I saw a single headline that acknowledges that Israel RETALIATED after ongoing rocket and mortor fire. Sometimes it's buried in a throw-away line in the text.

The media here just focuses on the fact that the Arab death toll is higher. Numerous profiles of suffering civilians in Gaza.

Slain Israelis and their loved ones rarely get the same attention in the wake of a suicide bombing or officially-sanctioned Hamas attack. The fact that they purposely place their targets and infrastructure near schools and community centers in Gaza also gets scant attention.


One sure fire thing Israel could do to stop rocket attacks on settlements is to... dismantle the settlements. They contravene International law and have been denounced by the UN and the International community including the US. I guess air strikes are much more fun though.


It has been over a month since the election, so I am surprised the Israelis waited so long. They should have gotten busy over a month ago. As it stands now Bush is only going to be president for less than a month, they haven't left themselves much time to work with.

Read the Hadith sometime, this has been a standard practice for Muslims for centuries.

There is way too much importance placed on having "peace in the middle east" and now is certainly not the time to talk of "peace".

There will never be "peace in the middle east" until AFTER the Arabs have gotten such a severe beatdown that they stop picking fights.

Which is not going to happen, because as soon as the Arabs are on the losing end they will get the international community to pressure Israel for a cease fire. Then they will regroup, rearm and do it again.

People need to stop worrying about "peace in the middle east" and let them bang it out. It is only after the clerics lead everyone into a slaughter that they will be thoroughly discredited so people stop following them.


I'm curious, GCF:

What makes you think that Hamas...who wants the total and complete elimination of the State of Israel...would somehow stop firing rockets and mortars into her territory because of the dismantling of some settlements?



Nothing makes me think that. I never said anything to suggest I thought that.

I merely made the observation - which is absolutely correct - that if the settlements did not exist Hamas can't fire rockets into them. It's pretty simple really. That is not to say if that did happen Hamas would cease all attacks on Israel's territotries. I'm not really sure how you read that into my above post.


What "settlement" under rocket fire "contravene" international law?

Sderot, Ashkelon and all the territory within range of Gaza's random fire are in Israel's legitimate territory, and they have always been within Israel's territory, since 1948.

I must presume, GCF, that you are misinformed, or purposefully lying, and that your comments can be dismissed as horseshit.


His point is completely irrelevant. The only thing that will stop Hamas, Hizballah, and Islamic Peaceful Inner Struggle is the complete elimination of Israel. Hamas' charter cites the central antisemitic motif(surah 3:112) of the Qur'an, for crying out loud:



Hamas does this because they hate Jews, not because of any "settlements."


All Israel has to do is to leave the territory they're illegaly occupying.


More horseshit.

Do you ever make an informed comment?
No, don't answer that until you have read PRCalDude's last post.
And graduated high school.


Hamas brought this on themselves.

Religion of Peace, indeed.


Fatah may want peace (on its own terms). Hamas does not want peace. At some level, I don't even think it wants the destruction of Israel. Well, it does. But not anytime soon. If Israel disappeared tomorrow, it would shit itself. God forbid. It'd actually have to govern. Instead of simply distracting the people with 'holy war' and continuing to act as a terrorist organization with a thin (very thin) veneer of political legitimacy.


Oh, really. That's all?


Thank you. Hamas' tactics infuriate me. It's one thing to declare war and fire rockets at Israel, but putting your own people at risk is completely fucked up.

You fail.