T Nation

Dick Cheney

Ladies and Gentleman,

That debate was what happens when you send a boy to do a man’s job.

No question who won that debate.

Can we transfer some of Cheney’s eloquence to W?

Just a few more choice sentences, a few less “Oh’s” and “ah’s” and W. will run away with this.

JeffR

I thought Edwards clearly won.

I wasn’t happy with either of their evasive techniques, I think the most important parts of the debate were sometimes found in the silence, but then again, I’m not votin’, so who cares what I think!
Maybe if W called in sick you could send Cheney along? Damn, that would be a better one to watch!

Cheney OWNED opie.

I admit that I am biased, but I thought that Cheney won the debate going away. He addressed the questions asked and effectively rebutted Edwards charges with facts. At times Edwards wandered around a bit on his answers. Some the “experts” after were saying that Cheney came off as dry. Well, duh. That’s not a shocker, that is just how he is. I will take substance over style any day. Just my 2 cents.

Clearly Cheney presented himself as a far more experienced, definately far superior statesman than that of edwards. Edwards reminded me of a student who doesn’t quite understand the lesson, involved in an argument with his professor.
Kerry cannot be happy with Edwards performance tonight as Cheney has definately shored up the Bush base. Edwards on the other hand, apeared as a smarmy trial lawyer with too little experience to be a heartbeat away from the presidency.

A good win for Bush/Cheney.

[quote]JeffR wrote:
Ladies and Gentleman,

Can we transfer some of Cheney’s eloquence to W?

JeffR[/quote]

No, we can’t. Impossible.

A question for BB:

As an attorney, what is your stance regarding the idea that trial lawyers are partly responsible for the rise in health care costs? Also, the VP made mention in the debate of a particular company that claimed of being able to hire 200,000 more people if it weren’t for increasing liability insurance?

Cheney voted against “Meals On Wheels” for senior citizens.

Cheney voted against a holiday for Martin Luther King.

He voted against a resolution condemning South Africa for jailing Nelson Mandela.

Cheney voted against Head Start.

Dick Cheney is Montgomery Burns!

I thought he did a terrible job at responding to the Halliburton slams. Cheney came off as a cold and grouchy guy who cares more about big business than he does about the average American.

Italso looks like Dick Cheney is really running the White House. Since his personality is so unpleasant Cheney could never win a national election, so he has to lead by coming in through the back door.

Can’t you just imagine Cheney snapping “Shut up, George!”

Cheyney came off as the pro playing against an amatuer. Edwards sidestepped his meager record. Cheyney was proud of his.

Pretty clear who won to most objective observers.

[quote]bigflamer wrote:
A question for BB:

As an attorney, what is your stance regarding the idea that trial lawyers are partly responsible for the rise in health care costs? Also, the VP made mention in the debate of a particular company that claimed of being able to hire 200,000 more people if it weren’t for increasing liability insurance?

[/quote]

I think the actual number of people that the airplane manufacurer said he would be able to hire was 200. Not 200,000.

I’m not lawyer, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Competition will lower the insurance costs. Tort reform might work to some small extent - but there has to be some incentive on the other side to get the rates to fall.

[quote]bigflamer wrote:
A question for BB:

As an attorney, what is your stance regarding the idea that trial lawyers are partly responsible for the rise in health care costs? Also, the VP made mention in the debate of a particular company that claimed of being able to hire 200,000 more people if it weren’t for increasing liability insurance?

[/quote]

Oh, they definitely are. I don’t know what stats Edwards was quoting - perhaps he was looking at some huge measure of overall health-care costs including drug costs, technological replacements, etc. - but in certain areas, notably risky surgeries and OBGYN practices, malpractice insurance premiums, which are being driven higher almost solely by plaintiff’s bar lawyers, are the driving force behind higher costs. They do this both by reducing the supply of doctors who will do the procedures (keep demand constant while reducing supply and you get higher prices) but also raising the fixed costs to the physicians who remain to do these procedures.

If you really want to get a better opinion than mine, ask some of the doctors on the forum – maybe Mustafa or Doc T or one of the other medical docs wants to chime in with what they’ve witnessed.

As to the VP, he was referring to non-medical stuff. Plaintiff’s bar lawyers have put many a company out of business on flimsy circumstances - if you want to read some dispiriting stuff, go over to http://www.overlawyered.com
The asbestos cases are the worst, but companies spend millions of dollars between insurance and legal fees fighting off “deep pocket” lawsuits – this refers to a tactic of lawyers naming a bunch of parties and trying to establish 1% (or some other trivial number) fault for a company that provided something that someone completely and stupidly misused, and then getting the company to pay damages to someone who hurt himself or to someone else who was hurt.

Both spoke well, I thought; much more interesting than their superiors. There was one point where they were criticizing each other’s records (Lumpy touched on it). When Edwards pointed out that Cheney voted against banning “plastic guns that can get through airport security” and “against the Department of Education” Cheney basically said nothing. Too bad, because these are both defensible positions. There is no such thing as a “plastic gun that can get through airport security” so therefore he voted against banning something that does not exist. Secondly, the Department of Education is an unconstitutional waste of money that oversees our horrendous system of government schools. I was amazed that he didn’t say more. Maybe he didn’t want to come across as “too conservative”. That’s “too bad”.

What is interesting to note was the idea that, God forbid, the standing President had to be replaced, who would you want as your replacement?

As laughable as it is to imagine John Kerry running the country, it is down right appalling that Edwards could be the President, should John Kerry have to be replaced.

From Drudge today:

“Now, in my capacity as vice president, I am the president of Senate, the presiding officer. I’m up in the Senate most Tuesdays when they’re in session. The first time I ever met you was when you walked on the stage tonight,” Cheney told Edwards during the debate.

On Feb. 1, 2001, the vice president thanked Edwards by name at a Senate prayer breakfast and sat beside him during the event.

On April 8, 2001, Cheney and Edwards shook hands when they met off-camera during a taping of NBC’s “Meet the Press,” moderator Tim Russert said Wednesday on “Today.”

On Jan. 8, 2003, the two met when the first-term North Carolina senator accompanied Elizabeth Dole to her swearing-in by Cheney as a North Carolina senator, Edwards aides also said.

Edwards didn’t forget their prayer-breakfast meeting. The Democratic vice presidential candidate noted the discrepancy at a post-debate rally in a Cleveland park, calling it an example of Cheney “still not being straight with the American people.”

“The vice president said that the first time I met Senator Edwards was tonight when we walked on the stage. I guess he forgot the time we sat next to each other for a couple hours about three years ago. I guess he forgot the time we met at the swearing in of another senator. So, my wife Elizabeth reminded him on the stage,” Edwards said as the crowd roared."

Edwards forgot the meetings. His wife reminded him. If the meetings were memorable, you would think that Edwards (junior Senator) would be far more likely to remember meeting a sitting Vice President than vis versa. You can forgive the V.P. for forgetting about meeting a junior Senator of limited importance.

Anyway, the prelude about Cheney coming to the Senate every Tuesday and not meeting Edwards there is the salient point anyway.

An absolutely devastating comment.

It’s made even more pertinent and devastating for Edwards when you realize just how little experience he has. He was trying to convince voters that he’s ready to be President if an emergency presents itself.

Cheney’s experience and practical knowledge is a bona fide treasure to this administration.

The Democrats know it full well. That’s why they are constantly trying to belittle him.

You saw last night what happens when you send a boy to do a man’s job.

JeffR

Lumpy:

I’m calling photo shop on that picture of yours…Hahah too funny, man!

White House officials tried preemptively to claim vindication, even though Bush’s public case for war rested on charges that Saddam possessed massive stockpiles of biological and chemical weapons and was actively working to build nuclear arms – allegations now all but abandoned by his top aides. And while Cheney insisted in his debate with Edwards that Saddam had “an established relationship with Al-Qaeda,” another crucial part of the argument for the invasion, the official probe into the September 11, 2001 attacks found no evidence of a collaborative relationship. Edwards seized on the remark, saying; "Mr Vice President, you are still not being straight with the American people.

“There is no connection between the attacks of September 11 and Saddam Hussein,” said the senator from North Carolina. “And you’ve gone around the country suggesting that there is some connection. There is not.”

This is Cheney winning ?
Pull your head out of your @$$

Edwards also hit the vice president on his leadership of Halliburton, the energy services firm that has faced charges of favoritism for its extensive contracts to provide logistical support in Iraq.

“While he was CEO of Halliburton, they paid millions of dollars in fines for providing false information on their company, just like Enron and Ken Lay. They did business with Libya and Iran, two sworn enemies of the United States. They’re now under investigation for having bribed foreign officials during that period of time,” Edwards said.

“Not only that, they’ve gotten a $7.5 billion no-bid contract in Iraq, and instead of part of their money being withheld, which is the way it’s normally done, because they’re under investigation they’ve continued to get their money,” he added.

Looks to me like Cheney is only experienced at lying to the American Public while lining his pockets at our expense.

[quote]stu-padaso wrote:
Edwards also hit the vice president on his leadership of Halliburton, the energy services firm that has faced charges of favoritism for its extensive contracts to provide logistical support in Iraq.

“While he was CEO of Halliburton, they paid millions of dollars in fines for providing false information on their company, just like Enron and Ken Lay. They did business with Libya and Iran, two sworn enemies of the United States. They’re now under investigation for having bribed foreign officials during that period of time,” Edwards said.

“Not only that, they’ve gotten a $7.5 billion no-bid contract in Iraq, and instead of part of their money being withheld, which is the way it’s normally done, because they’re under investigation they’ve continued to get their money,” he added.

Looks to me like Cheney is only experienced at lying to the American Public while lining his pockets at our expense. [/quote]

Looks to me like you haven’t educated yourself. Get back to us after you’ve done the necessary homework. Until then, you may sit in the back of the classroom.

Edwards kinda reminds me of Saturday Night Live’s Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer…

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I’m just a caveman. I fell on some ice and later got thawed out by some of your scientists. Your world frightens and confuses me! Sometimes the honking horns of your traffic make me want to get out of my BMW… and run off into the hills, or wherever… Sometimes when I get a message on my fax machine, I wonder: “Did little demons get inside and type it?” I don’t know! My primitive mind can’t grasp these concepts. But there is one thing I do know - when a man like my client slips and falls on a sidewalk in front of a public library, then he is entitled to no less than two million in compensatory damages, and two million in punitive damages. Thank you.

Here’s the Edwards version:

My fellow Americans, I’m just a poor millworker’s son. I haven’t done much for my home state as senator and I don’t have much experience in Washington. I don’t attend many meetings, or show up to vote on important legislation. But there is one thing I do know - when a man’s daddy learned to do math from the television, his team deserves the vote of the American people. Thank you.