T Nation

Dianabol vs. Anadrol


#1

I figured I'd continue this ongoing debate over these two compounds because I'm in the mood for a debate. I am starting a cycle soon and I was considering taking both compounds simultaneously in passive doses at a length a tad longer then the set 4wk period advised by most. This will be in addition to injectables. (Dont ask WHAT the dosages would be because it will change with every user depending on previous cycle history due to diminishing returns. Im speaking generally.)

I believe liver toxicity is TRUE, but overrated in most cases. If you dont drink alcohol on cycle and proper supplements combined with a passive dose of each product I believe that the liver toxicity can be controlled.

As far as the gains provided from each drug individually.. They work in different ways so I believe you COULD possibly see benefits from both if taken simultaneously.

And due to the passive dose of each product, I see it doubtful that you'll get extreme estrogen-related side effects. Especially if you include a low dose of nolva throughout.

What do you people think?

BMC


#2

Again?


#3

You are not going to see any benefit from stacking the two Class Ii steroids that you couldn't get from increasing the dosage of either alone.

Sure Anadrol MAY have progestrogenic like effects.. and Dianabol has Estrogenic like effects, BUT you would be better off having more of either feminine hormone (Progesterone or Estrogen) than moderate amounts of both.. as they are synergistic - with Progesterone significantly increasing the likely hood of Estrogen causing Gyno, etc.

  • Please could you enlighten me on the different mode of action these drugs have to one another?

  • Tamoxifen will not be much assistance at controlling a potentated methyl-estradiol.. surely Letrozole would be preferred for its anti-progesterone effects and its aromatase inhibition?

  • Liver toxicity is over-rated when someone with a perfectly healthy liver uses 30mg of methylated orals over 6 weeks and continues to drink without issue.
    It is not over-rated when someone with a weakened liver (genetically or from previous lifestyle) comes along and with no added alcohol, uses a total dose of 60-80mg methylated orals over 6 weeks which results in jaundice.

  • Deliberately not mentioning a dose as a 'get out clause' fails when you insist on repeating 'passive dose'. What is this uber-safe passive dose you speak of?

This has been talked about to the extent the answer is known more or less.. there was one guy who insisted on running it, and was happy with the results but admitted he could have achieved the same with an equal dose of either alone!

Bringing up this subject to 'debate' is akin to going to the House of Commons and insisting that womens rights is debated - just because you feel like it. Surely it would be of benefit to debate something worthwhile and educational?

Read classisication of anabolic steroids on meso.com - it is relevant.


#4

Indeed.

We actually have a nearly identical recent thread.


#5

Ok, I am not sure what a "passive dose" is. But please do not have any illusions about these heavy androgens. They are heavily supressive at any "effective" dosage. Your HPTA will be fully shut down after 2 weeks, even if you only take 5mg per day. You mentioned that you are taking injectables anyway, so there is little need to run them past week 4.

Personally I love dbol as a ergo aid/supplement. I either use it as a standalone 10mg-15mg /day for a 2 week minicycle. Or 10mg pre training (3 times per week) for the duration of my injectable cycle. The dosage is low enough to not worry about additional estrogen control.


#6

What? two weeks??? Is this true??? Bill Roberts 2week on 4 off cycle to not shut down... i thought three weeks was when, are you serious? This can't be... can it?


#7

"..They are heavily supressive at any "effective" dosage. Your HPTA will be fully shut down after 2 weeks, even if you only take 5mg per day.."

Meph.. i doubt highly that a well timed 5mg of dbol (being approximately twice the potency of drol) would suppress the HPTA. Well timed being in the morning during the natural peak of Testosterone.
In fact i am as sure of that as i can be, without having done it personally.
However, 5mg is hardly an 'effective dose' with 10-15mg being the minimum i would use for any kind of performance benefits... as you admitted to doing yourself.

The point is though, not so much if they are suppressive, we can both agree that in any dosage to reap maximum gains they will both suppress you fully eventually, albeit less than any aromatising injectable 9likely just due to half life IME).

And Wyld, inhibition of the Testes to secrete Testosterone is almost immediate, being a matter of days rather than weeks.
But the more complete suppression of the hypothalamus (which is the first to secrete messaging hormones, ie. GnRH) seems to be around the 3 week mark. This is why (i believe) BR designed his 2on,4 off cycles to be under the 3 week mark.. to avoid full HPTA suppression thus allowing a fast recovery and the potential for multiple back2back runs.

That said, a stack of drol and Dbol would be more suppressive than either alone. Another bonus to stacking them.
This is only the case assuming they are used alone, if an injectable test is added, as was hinted at - then the cycle would be totally suppressive regardless making all this writing academic. in fact, seeing as stacking the tweo is pointless and talking about it is running around in circles, i will be stopping writing more immedi

JJ


#8

ah yes. That's what i read in BR's article. Suppressive of LH but not FSH (or other way round). Cool, wot i thought. HPTA will NOT be "fully shutdown" after only two weeks as that guys said.

*phew


#9

LH production and therefore natural T production is shut down pretty quickly, well within 2 weeks, but at the 2 week point the pituitary is not shut down in responsiveness to LHRH -- the opposite actually.

The testes are also not suppressed in that they are able to produce T as soon as getting some signal from LH.

So you could say that during the first 2 weeks the axis is inactive, with the hypothalamus being suppressed but the pituitary and testes simply idling, so to speak, due to no signal.

Whether one calls that being "shutdown" or not depends on how one uses words. Many would say that a factory, for example, whose production line has completely stopped has "shut down" regardless that there is only one part of the entire process that has stopped processing.


#10

Ahh, thanks mate. I had it backwards, with the Pituitary suppressed but the Hypo functioning - but when i think about it, the suppression must start from the top of the chain, or it makes no sense.

:wink:


#11

AND you sparked my memory actually.. it is during this time that the testes become over-responsive to LH, as they are 'starved of any action'.
And this follows on to the use of HCG (acting as LH) which can easily cause further suppression with the smallest amount, as the testes 'lap it up' - is that right?

JJ


#12

At the two week point, it migbt be the case that the testes are more responsive but I hadn't known it. What I did know as having been shown as being more responsive than normal was the pituitary, to LH.

The testes certainly have good response at the 2 week point with or without HCG having been used.

As for longer cycles, if the testes are allowed to atrophy their responsiveness is worse. It might be the case that maintaining function with HCG has benefits relative to the not-producing-testosterone-in-a-while-but-not-atrophied state, but I don't know.


#13

I should've be more specific about my post. I think "shutdown" is probably not a good word to describe it. LH/testes output would be near zero after 1 week. THe whole system is in the process of shutting down.

5mg dbol, is super effective in post-menopausal women (or any female actually) :slight_smile: As estrogen level is near zero, the strong androgenic effect can be experienced right away. And improve mood for those women suffering from hormonal induced mood swings.
Definitely a must have for any serious female weightlifter. Just ask the Bulgarian team lol.

Jokes aside, from my experience, after a 2 week cycle, I can feel my natty test bounce back in 3-4 days, if i use 50mg clomid daily.

And to the OP, please don't get carried away with endless stacking options. I only consider stacking if I want to use more than 600mg of test. Non toxic Class1+Class2+peptide=good stack.