T Nation

Dianabol/Test-E and Winstrol Cycle

Hey so I was just hoping for some opinions if I could on my cycle, no flaming I’m just new and researching endlessly the last while :slight_smile: Any help and info appreciated! just need tips not just saying don’t do it lol thanks

I’m 5’11’ 140lb, 21 years old, 7-8% body fat and been exercising around 5 years.

Just started trying 6 weeks winstrol 50mg at the moment to see its effects (with glucosamine and milk thistle for liver and joints) and couple test-e shots to see too that too. but on my next cycle does this seem proper enough to simply gain 10-20lb of muscle and get a more ripped look?

week 1-6 Dianabol 30mg
week 1-12 Test-E 500mg
week 6-12 Winstrol 50mg

I will try to get nolvadex or arimidex for pct, but if I can’t, could I just lower my Test-E 500/400/300/200/100/50/25 to get my own production going again? I’m only doing 1 shot a week of test because I’m not into injects :confused: Any help appreciated again! :slight_smile:

too young, too small, you don’t understand the difference between AIs and SERMs, too much of a pussy to inject properly.

Back to the drawing board for you, young man.

[quote]SuperTightPanda wrote:
Hey so I was just hoping for some opinions if I could on my cycle, no flaming I’m just new and researching endlessly the last while :slight_smile: Any help and info appreciated! just need tips not just saying don’t do it lol thanks

I’m 5’11’ 140lb, 21 years old, 7-8% body fat and been exercising around 5 years.

Just started trying 6 weeks winstrol 50mg at the moment to see its effects (with glucosamine and milk thistle for liver and joints) and couple test-e shots to see too that too. but on my next cycle does this seem proper enough to simply gain 10-20lb of muscle and get a more ripped look?

week 1-6 Dianabol 30mg
week 1-12 Test-E 500mg
week 6-12 Winstrol 50mg

I will try to get nolvadex or arimidex for pct, but if I can’t, could I just lower my Test-E 500/400/300/200/100/50/25 to get my own production going again? I’m only doing 1 shot a week of test because I’m not into injects :confused: Any help appreciated again! :slight_smile:
[/quote]

You ready to stop lying to yourself and take this seriously? You have been training 5 years and accomplished less than any remotely serious person does in 3 months. You don’t know what you are doing in the gym or the kitchen yet.

Regarding your cycle…do more research…for about 3 more years while you learn to grow.

5’11" 140 You need to eat not use AAS.

[quote]SuperTightPanda wrote:

I will try to get nolvadex or arimidex for pct, but if I can’t, could I just lower my Test-E 500/400/300/200/100/50/25 to get my own production going again? I’m only doing 1 shot a week of test because I’m not into injects :confused: Any help appreciated again! :slight_smile:
[/quote]

well, this is an interesting theory, but somewhat flawed, IMO. this has also been referred to as the stasis taper, btw.

my issue with tapering like this, is for several reasons.

  1. you still need an AI during this. estrogen is far more suppressive to the HPTA than testosterone is, so we can’t allow that to rise here.

  2. a truly effective taper takes a really long time. the average male produces around 21-70mg of test/wk. so with that being said, we shouldn’t expect the body to kick back in until the outside testosterone is down below 21 mg/day.

  3. the taper does not account for the half life of the testosterone ester. the half life of test e/cyp is about 5 days. so that means a 500 mg/shot is down to 250 mg 5 days later, then 125, then 62.5, etc… if you extrapolate that and do the math, you’ll see that it’s more effective to let the ester taper itself down then to constantly keep adding more into it…

Finally a serious answer, thanks cyco, should I maybe just stick to a winstrol cycle since it aromitizes less and just add nolva 40/40/20/20 2 weeks after last inject? I’ve read lots of different opinions for arimidex, proviron, nolva and clomid but it seems like nolva is easy to get ahold of, I’ll have to check some places though since arimidex .5mg sounds more appropriate right? how would you edit my cycle in your opinion?

Just trying to learn this stuff guys, no need for flamers lol ya I’m skinny but virtually all of it is muscle mass after 5 years lol, almost 8 pack, solid biceps triceps etc. I’m not a bodybuilder, my diet is main focus I know needs to improve and I just want 10-15 pounds more muscle :stuck_out_tongue: any suggestions on a more proper looking cycle is appreciated! :slight_smile:


lol guess this will be a before pic …yes I gotta improve diet but 5 years didn’t do less then 3 months for someone :stuck_out_tongue:

[quote]SuperTightPanda wrote:
Finally a serious answer, thanks cyco, should I maybe just stick to a winstrol cycle since it aromitizes less and just add nolva 40/40/20/20 2 weeks after last inject? I’ve read lots of different opinions for arimidex, proviron, nolva and clomid but it seems like nolva is easy to get ahold of, I’ll have to check some places though since arimidex .5mg sounds more appropriate right? how would you edit my cycle in your opinion?

Just trying to learn this stuff guys, no need for flamers lol ya I’m skinny but virtually all of it is muscle mass after 5 years lol, almost 8 pack, solid biceps triceps etc. I’m not a bodybuilder, my diet is main focus I know needs to improve and I just want 10-15 pounds more muscle :stuck_out_tongue: any suggestions on a more proper looking cycle is appreciated! :)[/quote]

well, no offense, but i think you might be one of those guys that’s so afraid of gaining fat that they don’t gain muscle. i’m curious to see what your diet and training regimen is. if you over-rely on AAS to gain muscle, then you can’t expect to hold on much of it once you come off.

a simple cycle of test (500 mg/wk) is extremely successful for nearly everybody. there are also tons of studies that show this as well. but if you’re not eating enough now, you won’t gain as much on the cycle, and will prolly lose most of it when you’re done.

as far as planning PCT, i’d suggest taking a look at this: http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_gear/thoughts_on_planning_pct

[quote]SuperTightPanda wrote:
lol guess this will be a before pic …yes I gotta improve diet but 5 years didn’t do less then 3 months for someone :stuck_out_tongue: [/quote]

I understand you’re trolling and yes you succeded in being funny but don’t you think you should have at least blurred the face of whoever’s pic you posted? If I were him I would be really pissed to find myself the subject of a joke on a steroid forum.

2 Likes

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

well, no offense, but i think you might be one of those guys that’s so afraid of gaining fat that they don’t gain muscle. i’m curious to see what your diet and training regimen is. if you over-rely on AAS to gain muscle, then you can’t expect to hold on much of it once you come off.

a simple cycle of test (500 mg/wk) is extremely successful for nearly everybody. there are also tons of studies that show this as well. but if you’re not eating enough now, you won’t gain as much on the cycle, and will prolly lose most of it when you’re done.

as far as planning PCT, i’d suggest taking a look at this: http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_gear/thoughts_on_planning_pct

[/quote]

Alright sounds good, thanks for the info :slight_smile: I’ll probably just start out continuing this cycle of 6 weeks winnie 50mg and 500mg test e a week then, just to test it out and maybee do my previous mention dbol/test-e/winnie in few months, just gotta get some nolva first for end of this cycle too, maybe taper down the 40mg,30mg,20mg test-e then do the nolva which I should be able to get some of.

I was thinking now I should just avoid the 10 weeks of test-E though, since I don’t want to risk permanent shutdown of my own production if you think there’s a real risk of that? my own production would probably kick back in quicker too if I do shorten the cycles… would 6 weeks winnie 50mg/test-e 500mg, and then repeating that same cycle again in a few months be good enough to reach my goals? since you said just the test-e people find success in so it should just be a bonus addon?

I posted above pic, not afraid of gaining weight lol I had tried 3 months counting all calories/protein averaging 3500cal/120g protein before(failed protein part which is crucial :confused: so gotta aim for minimal of 180g protein this cycle and continue after cycle of course, glutamine seems to help lots on not losing muscle js) and I maybe gained 5 pounds, but then the next 3 months think I had lost it but kept couple pounds muscle lol, I do prefer abs over just big arms cause it’s more appealing…I’m happy with where I’m at I just simply want 10-15 pounds of muscle by summer and get a more ripped look, fairly easy compared to most people on this sites goals.

[quote]dt79 wrote:

I understand you’re trolling and yes you succeded in being funny but don’t you think you should have at least blurred the face of whoever’s pic you posted? If I were him I would be really pissed to find myself the subject of a joke on a steroid forum.[/quote]

Lol wtf, yeah I just got a blurred pic of some random guy? google image search is pretty easy to use if you think its copied somewhere :stuck_out_tongue: and no idc if my face is here lol. :stuck_out_tongue: I’m just new to this asking questions trying to learn this stuff, it may seem basic to you, but the first few responses assumed because I’m 140 5’11’ means I’m anorexic? so I posted a pic to show I’m not, so stop trolling if you’re not here to help. :slight_smile:

[quote]SuperTightPanda wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:

I understand you’re trolling and yes you succeded in being funny but don’t you think you should have at least blurred the face of whoever’s pic you posted? If I were him I would be really pissed to find myself the subject of a joke on a steroid forum.[/quote]

Lol wtf, yeah I just got a blurred pic of some random guy? google image search is pretty easy to use if you think its copied somewhere :stuck_out_tongue: and no idc if my face is here lol. :stuck_out_tongue: I’m just new to this asking questions trying to learn this stuff, it may seem basic to you, but the first few responses assumed because I’m 140 5’11’ means I’m anorexic? so I posted a pic to show I’m not, so stop trolling if you’re not here to help. :slight_smile:
[/quote]

Believe it or not I was trying to help. You need to eat not use steroids. PERIOD. If you say you can’t “get over the hump” or “break through this plateau” its bullshit and I’m calling you on it. Eat and train. That’s it. You don’t understand the drugs, how they work, and what they do to your body. You are terribly unprepared and need to put on another 40-50 lbs in the next couple of years WHILE you educate yourself about what these drugs do and how they work.

[quote]SuperTightPanda wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:

I understand you’re trolling and yes you succeded in being funny but don’t you think you should have at least blurred the face of whoever’s pic you posted? If I were him I would be really pissed to find myself the subject of a joke on a steroid forum.[/quote]

Lol wtf, yeah I just got a blurred pic of some random guy? google image search is pretty easy to use if you think its copied somewhere :stuck_out_tongue: and no idc if my face is here lol. :stuck_out_tongue: I’m just new to this asking questions trying to learn this stuff, it may seem basic to you, but the first few responses assumed because I’m 140 5’11’ means I’m anorexic? so I posted a pic to show I’m not, so stop trolling if you’re not here to help. :slight_smile:
[/quote]

I thought it was reasonable to assume a mentally healthy male wouldn’t post a pic of himself if he looked like that after 5 years of training.

I also thought it was reasonable to assume that no person in his right mind would think he needs to take drugs to meet his goal of 150-155lbs at 5’11’.

I guess I was wrong. Have fun, I’m out.

[quote]SuperTightPanda wrote:
because I’m 140 5’11’ means I’m anorexic? so I posted a pic to show I’m not
[/quote]

you actually totally do look anorexic. I’m not kidding, “anorexic” was genuinely the first word that came into my head when I saw your photo. I know you think you look shredded brah, and you have done a good job of staying lean, I guess, but dude your arms must be like 11".

Cycobushmaster is right on the money about how you don’t eat enough to build muscle. You’ll get your 10lbs from your cycle, and 6 weeks after PCT you’ll probably have kept like 4 because you’re not eating enough.

[quote]Yogi wrote:

you actually totally do look anorexic. I’m not kidding, “anorexic” was genuinely the first word that came into my head when I saw your photo. I know you think you look shredded brah, and you have done a good job of staying lean, I guess, but dude your arms must be like 11".

Cycobushmaster is right on the money about how you don’t eat enough to build muscle. You’ll get your 10lbs from your cycle, and 6 weeks after PCT you’ll probably have kept like 4 because you’re not eating enough.[/quote]

Lol well I haven’t weighed myself for like half a year…could be 145-150 not sure, goal is moreso 160-170, maan that sucks lool just dont compare me to everyone thats a endo/mesomorph on here or an all out bodybuilder, I said I prefer lean hard look and abs, just need more musclemass, clearly. Yeah I don’t eat enough protein I explained already, I should be more specific on workouts, I consistently worked out abs 5 years always, arms legs etc were somewhat less so, but typically rotating each muscle groups, need to up my own weights again to about 40lb dumbells biceps/triceps rather then 30’s but considering a lot of distractions happens in 5 years like bunning for 2 of them set me back hard on being lazy, but quit all that and determined and motivated again. Overall yes I need to eat I get that so enough of that, thanks.

I’m still set on continuing the cycle and perhaps a second repeat though. Arms are 14", and if I didnt exercise ya they’d be patheticly smaller, believe me, good for my size considering overall fitness level. Everyone can be comparing me to the typical 180lb or 220lb on here, or just have a different opinion of what looks nice to them because it suits their preference, no need to bash though. I know it’s honest critism most the time so appreciate it in that case. :slight_smile:

eatmorefood (jokes name lol) ya I wasn’t geared towards your comment, appreciate the honesty, I do need more weight, but still set on giving this cycle a go because it worked awsomely for my friend just on winny surprisingly, except he ate more of course.

But anyways cyco same questions as before please…I’m clearly determined on sticking with this plan to those saying don’t til I gain weight, no more random flaming I understood. So the 500mg test-e is best advice so far it would seem. Would the winnie be a good bonus, both for 6 weeks, then another cycle in few months? and same question with the length and natural production of test. And yogi, 4 lbs isn’t all that bad considering the plateau I’ve been at. Thanks to those simply giving advice, I do appreciate it again. Would just like what I asked before from cyco on what his opinion is of all that.

Also just curious on yogi and dt…you’ve posted 1200-2000 times, so I’m assuming you’ve had quite a few cycles yourselves? just wondering your weight gains from when you started to now and your ages too when you did? just curious what I’m being compared to cause I’m 21 and ectomorph so my fitness level is pretty solid for what my physique started as, just wondering, not trolling or trying to annoy, just trying to see your point of view and what you’re opinion of a well built person is; I’m assuming 180-220 bodybuilder might be your opinions on what a perfect physique is? goals vary from everyone I know.

And any tips you may have for me to start with on the actual cycles from your experiences? besides the gain weight before starting roids, train more and wait a few more years lol…if not it’s all good, just curious. :slight_smile:

If your goal is 10-30 lbs more than what you are now. All you need is food. That is what I’m telling you. Don’t put drugs in your body at 21 years old to something that you can do completely on your own. If you don’t learn to eat properly and train properly the drugs are incapable of helping you. You’ll gain your 15lbs and 2 months later be back to where you were. Then you’ll be back here crying that your cycle didn’t work and you need to try again.

Alright fair enough eatmore, thanks :slight_smile: I’ll just quick fix it now, and won’t be complaining later on lol if I’m full and only got like 120g protein, I can just down like 4 glasses of milk/glutamine…and digestive enzymes etc so its not a bad source of protein :stuck_out_tongue:

Good luck kid. I’m done

[quote]SuperTightPanda wrote:
Also just curious on yogi and dt…you’ve posted 1200-2000 times, so I’m assuming you’ve had quite a few cycles yourselves? just wondering your weight gains from when you started to now and your ages too when you did? just curious what I’m being compared to cause I’m 21 and ectomorph so my fitness level is pretty solid for what my physique started as, just wondering, not trolling or trying to annoy, just trying to see your point of view and what you’re opinion of a well built person is; I’m assuming 180-220 bodybuilder might be your opinions on what a perfect physique is? goals vary from everyone I know.

And any tips you may have for me to start with on the actual cycles from your experiences? besides the gain weight before starting roids, train more and wait a few more years lol…if not it’s all good, just curious. :)[/quote]

Quit bitching about being an ectomorph as if it’s a disability you have to overcome. It’s just another word for skinny.

I started lifting at 130lbs at 5’ 11". I got myself up to 180lbs before I touched steroids. I hid behind labels like “ectomorph” and “hardgainer” for years until I finally decided to get my diet sorted, and low and behold: I started gaining like everyone else.

First cycle I got a good 8lbs after the 10 weeks were up and PCT was all done and dusted. I did a fairly low dose cycle of test and anavar (which remains one of my favourite cycles to this day - I don’t really run things too heavily).

As for perfect physique, I think Lazar Angelov has got about as good a physique as it’s possible to have, and he weighs 200lbs if I remember rightly.

No one’s saying you should never do steroids, just that you are not in a place where you’ll get much out of them at this point. Get your diet sorted, add some bodyweight, get a few more years experience then take the plunge. You’ll be glad you waited.