T Nation

Detroit or California?


#1

Which one goes tits up first?

"State Controller John Chiang today released his monthly report covering Californiaâ??s cash balance, receipts and disbursements in December, showing monthly revenues came in $165.2 million below the latest projections contained in the Governorâ??s proposed 2012-13 Budget. When compared against the 2011 Budget Act, December revenues were $1.4 billion below estimates.

â??While we saw positive numbers in November, Decemberâ??s totals failed to meet even the latest revenue projections,â?? said Chiang."

http://dailycapitalist.com/2012/01/11/california-looking-greece-ier/#more-17239


#2

We will go under first.

Ain't no question.


#3

HH,

An economist recently made the following prediction. If you add all the unfunded pension liabilities, costs of the high speed rail (which we are literally undoing ourselves), the debt of all the cities and counties, California is looking at $1 Trillion in debt. Yep, I said ONE TRILLION. Politicians here say that we are the innovators, yep, we'll be the first ones off the cliff.


#4

And exactly how much worse do you think Detroit can get?


#5

I think that Detroit represents what happened in much of the "Industrial Belt" of the United States; foreign competition and the moving of manufacturing where there was cheaper labor.

California (IMO) represents more poor policy decisions; union overeach, with fiscally poor contracts; and a Ballott/Intiative system that favors what people "want" more than what they "need".

The cumulative effect is a system that will smother under its own weight. There is only so much money you can take out of education.

Mufasa


#6

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#7

True.

The US will be there after having cut their budget in half.

If money was the problem, the US should be producing geniuses by the truckload,


#8

And sometimes smothering regulations, correct?

Mufasa


#9

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#10

Agreed with all of this. If you take away some (most) of the ridiculous government regulations on businesses, then I guarantee you'll see a return in small and/or large businesses to the U.S., and not overseas.

CS


#11

Let's not forget the impact of entitlement programs on both of these places. My girlfriend personally witnessed someone arriving at DHS driving a Bentley. Stories like that are very common. Generations of families depend on these programs to survive. I think if they were to drastically cut or eliminate food stamps and welfare there would be riots in Detroit.


#12

Cali...

Detroit got bailed out enough when the govt saved GM that its fine and the rest of the state can always loan detroit money...

Cali - the state is fubard... however, they wont go tits up because the federal govt will bail them out with our money so they can continue to force 25% tips, pay people not to work and smoke weed...


#13

Is Detroit going to take down the entire state of Michigan? I think Detroit is as far gone as it can get already.

California is a whole different milk-shake.


#14

Detroit can't take down Michigan, only in Detroit are things really fucked, the surrounding suburbs are nothing like Detroit.

California as a state is Fucked for sure.


#15

Eh, wouldn't be so hard to fence off Detroit, containing it. The state of the art fence could have like a mail slot to drop off welfare payments. Occasionally troops could escort maintenance men in to make sure there's still in electricity in the public housing.


#16

I am asking all you peeps to NOT bail us out.

I want this state to embrace ruin, and I want Jerry Brown to leave Hackramento naked.

Everything here is a lie...EVERYTHING.

Fiscal budgets that account for $4 Billion in revenue from windfall profits (which is code for "we have no fucking clue where this will come from.")

Every single politician is either Union-owned, or Unions try to bribe the few Republicans we have. A few years ago, Republicans were the final votes to pass the biggest tax hike in history. FUCKING REPUBLICANS OF ALL PEOPLE !

A short resume of Fuckifornia...

  • Highest taxes in the country

  • 2nd highest unemployment.

  • 3rd worst housing market.

  • Highest paid teachers in the country, ranked 2nd worst, only behind the DC schools.

  • Ranked worst business climate in the country.

  • State with the most Union workers

  • State that holds the most illegal aliens.

  • State that has 12% of the population, but has 35% of the country's welfare.

  • Worst state tax system (as an individual, you are placed in the highest tax bracket when you make $47k/year as an individual or $80k/yr as a couple).

  • We have a $94 Billion annual budget (AS A STATE THIS IS OBSCENE).

Just so you know, California ranks as the 9th largest economy in the world, and the City of Los Angeles ranks as #16 in best world economies. We have no problem with revenue, spending is a mother fucker here, and it's killing us.

Save your state my friends, don't let the Liberal spending machine get a foothold, get them out.


#17

  • Ranked worst business climate in the country.

  • State with the most Union workers.

  • State that holds the most illegal aliens.

  • State that has 12% of the population, but has 35% of the country's welfare.

Well now, there is your problem right there.

/glad I escaped in '96
//even if it was to Mormon world


#18

Well, I think Detroit is already out of money. They win the spiral to the bottom. Michigan's governor has needed to send in specialists to help assist with restructuring government contracts.

If it comes to it, state wise I'm guessing Illinois before California. When the calls go out for bailing out irresponsible states, I doubt many are going to be pleased to help.

"Detroit Feeling Greek As the Technocrats Close In"

snippet:

"Via Meadia hopes that Detroit can rise above these challenges without losing its local autonomy, but if the city is unable to renegotiate its public services and restore confidence in its ability to meet its financial obligations, an emergency manager won?t be nearly enough to set the city right.
The race issue is a red herring when it comes to Detroit. Detroit isn?t broke because it has an African American majority; it is broke because for decades its politicians have spent more money than they had, and because Detroit never figured out how to reinvent itself as it lost its industrial core. (Pittsburgh and Chicago are two rust belt cities that have been much more successful than Detroit. Atlanta has done much better under African American leadership than Detroit.) The state government and the feds aren?t refusing to bail it out because so many Detroiters are African American. The state doesn?t have the money to bail it out, and the GOP nationally believes that bailouts enable bad behavior rather than changing it. There is no support for bailouts in predominantly non-Black jurisdictions like New York state and California.
Detroit did everything it could to cling to the blue social model long after conditions made that model unsustainable. What Detroit needs is for new indigenous leadership to rise in both the private and the public sectors that can help the city reinvent itself as a 21st century, post-blue metropolis."


#19

I think Maximus has never been to Detroit, I think Cali. economy is improving . In Detroit's case there is no industry big enough to fill the void left by Ronald Reagan


#20

"...The race issue is a red herring when it comes to Detroit. Detroit isn't broke because it has an African American majority; it is broke because for decades its politicians have spent more money than they had, and because Detroit never figured out how to reinvent itself as it lost its industrial core..."

This needs to be emphasized...and REemphasized....

Mufasa