T Nation

Desperately Need PCT Help/Advice


I've had a few pm's and emails back and forth with a few of you and it was the general consensus that I'd receive much better feedback for this situation in a thread rather than following up via pm only.

More than a year and a half ago I did a cycle of Dienedrone for 8 weeks. I didn't do a full PCT then--just an AI and some natural test boosters. After 3 months of still not being recovered and totally depending on research taldafil, I did another PCT with clomid, nolva and hcg for a month. Finally at this point my testes returned to their normal size, but sexual function was still inhibited and very weak without the use of Cialis/Viagra.

Here I am, more than a year and a half removed from my PCT, with my marriage in jeapordy, because I can't achieve or maintain a strong erection. I've seen two doctors now--one this morning and one several weeks ago. The first one, after being debriefed on the situation, refused to order blood tests and said everything should return back to normal in time and I should learn to not mess with any hormones. He went on to say that unless I'm in a multi-million dollar NFL contract, there is no reason to ever toy aroundn with any performance enhancements under any circumstances.

I just saw another endocrinologist this morning, and after looking at my blood test that I brought in (see below), didn't seem to think anything was wrong.

It's not mental. Physically my erections just aren't there--it's beyond frustrating. I'm not sure where to turn to at this point, thus far my doctor(s) have been of little to no help and as far as I've read, I've done everything PCT-wise I can do on my end. Any feedback is greatly appreciated. I have Clomid, HCG, Nolva and Selegiline all on hand for whatever protocol is necessary. I also have some natural test boosters, aromatase inhibitors, etc. Thank you all in advance!!


Here is the rest of the results...


Thanks everyone!


I also purchased some cabergoline that should be in at some point this week. I have never taken it or Selegiline before.


How old are those labs?
What were you taking before the labs?
Do you feel different now compared to when the labs were done?

What are you taking now?

AST/ALT can be elevated from sore or bruised muscles.

Your LH/FSH and T looks great. The only problem is the high E2.

Suggest 1.0mg anastrozole per week in EOD divided dosing. Expect to feel significant changes in 1-14 days. Improvements may take up to 2 months to be completed. That dose is appropriate for your T levels.

Why is E2 elevated? Some Rx or OTC drugs can do that. High LH/FSH might do this in the same fashion as high hCG doses.


where do you carry fat?

SERMs increase E2 and anastrozole should be used when on a SERM get close to E2=22pg/ml

Do your own labs for E2; available from lef.org as well as a good male panel.

Have you had any thyroid tests?
Do you get cold easily?
Iodine in your salt or vitamins?
Checked your oral waking body temp?


How old are those labs?
Labs were taken this past Friday.

What were you taking before the labs?

About 3 1/2 weeks ago I finished another PCT run of clomid/nolva.

Do you feel different now compared to when the labs were done?

I don't feel any different now from when the labs were done, considering they were only done Friday.

What are you taking now?

Right now I'm not taking anything besides a multi, protein powder, and energy drinks 1-2x a week before workouts.

AST/ALT can be elevated from sore or bruised muscles.

Your LH/FSH and T looks great. The only problem is the high E2.

I will get some anastrozole. What is EOD divided dosing? I will find some anastrozole today.

age= 25 years old
height= 5 foot 10
weight= 230 pounds
waist= 34 inch waist

where do you carry fat?
Predominantly in my lower abdomen. I can see all of my abs but not the clear divisions down the bottom. The only time I ever do is when I do a long contest prep.

Do your own labs for E2; available from lef.org as well as a good male panel.
When should I do the labs for E2 and the male panel?

Have you had any thyroid tests?
I have not had any thyroid tests.

Do you get cold easily?
I don't get cold easily, at least not than I can think of.

Iodine in your salt or vitamins?
As far as I know, unless stated otherwise, all salt is iodized that I use.

Checked your oral waking body temp?
I have not checked my oral waking body temperature. This is something I can do for sure tomorrow.

Thank you so much for your quick responses. I cannot tell you how much your help means to me.


EOD = every other day, aka E2D

If you start with the anastrozole, you can test E2 in 3/4 weeks.

Read and understand: http://www.google.com/search?q=site:tnation.T-Nation.com+anastrozole+over-responder

Read the stickies and posts of others. There are a lot of young guys here, learn from what is in their posts.


Okay, I ordered the anastrozole.

Don't think I can swing the male panel quite yet. Probably by the end of next month though as long as no unforeseen emergencies come up.


Also just order the estradiol test. After I receive the anastrozole, is there a specific period of time I should follow the suggested 1.0mg anastrozole per week in EOD divided doses protocol for? Or is it just for the 1-14 days when I feel some improvement?


wait 3-4 weeks at a constant dose before testing...longer is better...you should be seeing some improvements within a week if E2 is the cause....

I would also ask a doc to test your thyroid (TSH, fT3, fT4) and cortisol (a.m. cortisol) just to make sure those are in line as either could be contributing to your symptoms.

Thanks to another poster here, I am also beginning to put more stock in the role of depression (or "lowered dopamine output" if you prefer) in causing sexual dysfunction. I wouldn't go down this route though until all the other hormones are confirmed optimal (which your E2 is not).


Just wanted to give you guys a quick update. Started doing the 1.0mg spread throughout the week EOD. About an hour after taking it I can actually FEEL my libido kicking up--random erections, slightly more solid, etc. It will be one week officially this Wednesday, and I'm thrilled thus far. Now I don't know whether other hormones may be contributing to the suppression in the first place, but this has been excellent thus far.

I cannot tell you how much all of your help means to me. Between the Anastrozole and the Taldafil I could have a normal night, just like the old days, with my wife on Christmas. It's still not 100% by any means, but much improved, and appreciably so. I look forward to seeing what another week of the anastrozole can do for me.

I didn't start with the Selegiline yet, as I wanted to address the E2 first. I don't know if I'm even really oging to need the Selegiline, considering how much improvement I've had thus far--I'd be scared to mess up anything going back to normal.

A quick question--will anastrozole have to be part of my long term supplementation program to keep e2 reduced? Or will I just be running it for two week bursts occasionally? Just for two weeks this time?


If E2 needs to be managed, you can't be on and off.


Just to be clear, I will be on anastrozole indefinitley?



Is the general consensus that I should have e2 retested in about two more weeks without adding in the selegiline? Or can/should I start taking that as well?

I've noticed an improvement, allbeit slight, but still noticeable enough to know that something is happening.

Any other input is appreciated. From reading around, I've started adding in some iodized salt to some of my meals and b12. Any suggestions on taking some vitamin d? Lipoic acid? Anything else?

Thanks again everyone!


I would hold off on anything else until you find out what your baseline looks like...key is to make changes slowly and incrementally...otherwise how are you going to know what is helping you and what isnt?

Some things are ok to start all at once (vitamins, fish oils, etc.) since they fall under general health and aren't really self medicating....but things that you DONT want to take long term, I would suggest adding in gradually....

For Vit D3, I use Biotics Emulsified brand...its a liquid and I put 5 drops (10,000 iu) on my tongue every morning....that keeps me at around 80 ug/dl


Okay, thanks for the advice! I will hold off on anything else and continue with the anastrozole.