T Nation

Desperate for Joint/Knee Relief


#1

When I first started TRT, I stupidly kept my E2 very low for a long time and developed knee pain in both knees after a very hard mountain bike ride. That was on 2/14/17. On 11/11/17 I realized I was lowering my E2 and it was causing the joint pain. Im 31 btw.

Have avoided estrogen control since then (although a few times I tried taking CDG, and this also affected my e2, so I stopped)

I have had x-rays, 2 MRI’s (one with contrast) and they all come back “normal”. I asked the doctor to check for any cartilage loss or bone loss or arthritis (because of the e2) and he said that there was none of that. So long story short, there is nothing “physically” wrong with my knee, at least that can be seen with imaging.

My symptoms are : Pain mostly on the inside of both knees. Chronic, its all day
Feels like burning, sometimes itching.
Pain gets better when not on feet. (resolves, until I start walking again)

I absolutely CANNOT squat, Run, or jump (this is killing me, as I love to squat, and bike, and be active generally) I can walk quite a bit and it does not aggravate too bad (several Disneyland trips with lots of walking, no noticeable progression in pain) I am able to do some things like deadlift, with minimal pain. Generally the pain is worse with repetitive motions and squatting/weight bearing.

I have had this now for over a year. I had HUGE pain relief when I stopped messing with my estrogen. but the problem did not go away. I feel like there is something permanently damaged. The pain does not gradually get better. Now its just constant pain.

I have a little daughter and I am heartbroken that I wont be able to live life with her, ride bikes, be a dad.

Please, someone, HELP. If anyone has had a similar issue, or knows anyone.

If anyone has taken medications/pharm that helped their joints, I need advice.

Deca, EQ? I saw that Deca only lubricated joints but didn’t actually heal. Im looking for healing.

If you have any information, I appreciate it.


#2

Look at Turmeric. Its touted as an herbal analgesic equivalent to ibuprofen.

Deca or NPP is supposed to have some restorative properties especially for joints.


#3

I take 900mg Curcumin practically everyday. It, and NSAID’s do give me some relief, only temporary though.

Another thing I forgot to mention. I never have pain during the exercises, only after. Usually its the next day, I wake up and my knees hurt more.


#4

Yeah sounds like you need to get your estrogen issues fixed.

Neptune krill oil is good stuff. Supercissus worth a try -does wonders for some 50%, nothing for other 50
if want to go the pharma route some of the new peptides like tb 500 are meant be amazing


#5

Haven’t messed with my estrogen since November 2017. I have read that it can take from 6 months to 18 months to heal from e2 related joint issues. One guy was at 2.5 years and still had problems.

I tried cissus originally, but when I was still messing with my E2, so I may give it another shot now that I have that fixed.

I am gonna look into tb500, any experience with it?


#6

I suggest going to a specialist, instead of trying to fix this yourself. You have no idea what you’re dealing with, so how do you believe you should be trying to fix it on your own?

Get your primary physician to refer you to a knee specialist.


#7

I’ve seen Sports medicine doc, and also a orthopedic surgeon. Both agreed, there was nothing physically wrong with my knee that could be seen on imaging.

I even had a second MRI done with contrast. No damage.

I wouldn’t be on here asking a bunch of random gym enthusiast if I had not already gone the medical approach.


#8

I can kinda relate to your situation. I had terrible nagging elbow problems and had no luck with physical therapy, cortisone injection, acupuncture, etc. MRI and x-rays showed nothing. I considered tb-500 but couldn’t talk myself into it and even ran 2- 6 month cycles of pharma hgh at 2iu a day which didn’t do much. I finally found a dr that used ultra sound to look at my elbow and found a torn tendon that no one had seen. Maybe you could suggest that to your dr.


#9

Thanks for the solid advice. I was looking at Tb500 also. Tried BPC 157 with little results.

I had asked my doctor about ultrasound, but he didn’t seem like it was a very definitive.

how did you rehab? Sx?


#10

I ended up having surgery on both elbows. The procedure was called Tenex also sometimes called FaST. Simple, minimally invasive, out patient. The recovery was slow, but I’d say I have 100% improvement in my right arm and 80% in my left.


#11

was it for tennis elbow?


#12

Tennis Elbow, Tendonitis. I think you’re on the right track.

Your knee pain could be tendonitis in your thighs or “quads” or whatever. Maybe adductors because you mentioned “inside.”


#13

E2 is suppose to effect the tendons and ligaments in a negative fashion. Maybe that’s what im dealing with.


#14

Or it could just be regular, old fashioned tendonitis.


#15

Sermorelin has helped my joint pain, significantly. Have your IGF-1 checked.


#16

Thank you. That never occurred to me. I have access to labs anytime, so I will get it done tomorrow.


#17

Yes it was tendinitis or actually scar tissue in the tendon from small tears or abrasions from the bone under the tendon. The Dr cuts away the scar tissue and grinds the underlying bone to promote blood flow and a smother surface


#18

myself no, but have pretty much only heard good things


#19

Hi there you should be on a anti inflammatory diet with olive oil and get a gnc multivitamin & triple strength fish oil for inflammation and for joints get TRIFLEX and check your VITAMIN D level try to control your stress level drink ginger and Turmeric tea


#20

Anti inflammatory diet would be a great idea. I have some friends that swear by dry needling which a physical therapist can do.