Depression or Low T

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
21

[quote]entheogens wrote:
You know some say that depression and, in turn, low T, causes sleep problems; no doubt that can be true, but why couldn’t the inverse be equally true: lack of sleep bring on depression?

If I sleep well, I feel on top of the world. If I dont, well, after a few days, I feel like a French Existentialist who’s just been told he has three days to live. In other words, all gloom and doom. And, FYI, at 47 years old, my testosterone is relatively high 790 (had it tested two months ago)

I had sleep problems. I tried melatonin, I tried 5-HTP, I tried Chinese herbs, I tried acupuncture. Now all of those things will work for certain people, but they didn’t work for me. Finally a doctor gave me
a very low dose of amitrypyline (low enough that there are no side effects whatsoever) and that did the trick.

Now I sleep well. The only time I dont sleep well-and I am not joking- is the few days on either side of the full moon. Can’t figure that one out. Maybe I am descended from werewolves ;)[/quote]

Sleep deprivation, which can be caused by as little as 5-6 hours of sleep every night, has many side effects. Aggression, agner, loss of memory, disorientation, lack of judgement, and even death (death has never been tested on humans, but lab rats have died in sleep studies due to sleep loss).

22

[quote]PGJ wrote:
“stupid, lazy and unhappy”

That’s me in a nutshell.

Would it cause fat gain and loss of lean body mass, despite heavy weight lifting and regualar high intensity cardio?

[/quote]

Well in the spring of 05 I had managed to work my way down to 185-190. Sometime in the Fall I just began packing it on. Didnt stop until I got to 214. Didn’t take long either, a month maybe. The only thing that I had changed was creatine. I stopped the creatine but the weight just kept coming. Today I am still 214.

I would attribute your mental symps to E, and maybe the increased flabbiness as well. But I suspect that T may have more to do with your physical symps. There are others here who are far more knowledgeable.

Your cardio may be hurting you. If you are doing long duration hard cardio you are burning muscle. Should be sprinting.

23

[quote]MichaelOH wrote:
PGJ wrote:
“stupid, lazy and unhappy”

That’s me in a nutshell.

Would it cause fat gain and loss of lean body mass, despite heavy weight lifting and regualar high intensity cardio?

Well in the spring of 05 I had managed to work my way down to 185-190. Sometime in the Fall I just began packing it on. Didnt stop until I got to 214. Didn’t take long either, a month maybe. The only thing that I had changed was creatine. I stopped the creatine but the weight just kept coming. Today I am still 214.

I would attribute your mental symps to E, and maybe the increased flabbiness as well. But I suspect that T may have more to do with your physical symps. There are others here who are far more knowledgeable.

Your cardio may be hurting you. If you are doing long duration hard cardio you are burning muscle. Should be sprinting.

[/quote]

I always keep my cardio under 25 minutes at least 2X’s per week. HIIT-style. I HATE long runs or any extended cardio.

24

I’m still a young buck compared to you guys but get some zma & try that. (I don’t know if it actually raises test lvls but it sure makes you sleep better) & maybe try to start getting 8-9hrs of sleep instead. I feel way better on 9 & even try to get 10 if I can.

25

[quote]Jesse22 wrote:
I’m still a young buck compared to you guys but get some zma & try that. (I don’t know if it actually raises test lvls but it sure makes you sleep better) & maybe try to start getting 8-9hrs of sleep instead. I feel way better on 9 & even try to get 10 if I can.[/quote]

I agree with Jesse. Get 6 hours of sleep and ZMA makes you feel like you got 7-8 hours. It’s a great product. I find it doesn’t put me to sleep but when I do sleep it keeps me there. Deep sleep is what it’s all about. Quality over Quantity. Biggest boner in the morning… What?

But Jesse, I’m sure these guys know or tried ZMA by now. Not all guys respond well to everything.

Either way, ZMA great product. If you haven’t been taken it for a while get back on it to the OP.

That T test won’t hurt either.

Good luck

-Kev

26

yeah i spoke to KSman about my levels abit and he mentioned that damaging the pituitary can really effect LH&T, thyroid and HG. i was in a really bad car accident about 3 years ago where i broke my back, shattered almost every bone in my left arm from the elbow down, and suffered some head trauma. hopefully we can get it figured out today!

27

[quote]Kevin Haywood wrote:
But Jesse, I’m sure these guys know or tried ZMA by now. Not all guys respond well to everything.

Either way, ZMA great product. If you haven’t been taken it for a while get back on it to the OP.

-Kev[/quote]

Actually I have never tried it, don’t know what it is, and have only seen fleeting references to it.

Wouldn’t mind sleeping better, though.

28

[quote]MichaelOH wrote:
Actually I have never tried it, don’t know what it is, and have only seen fleeting references to it.

Wouldn’t mind sleeping better, though.

[/quote]

ZMA (Zinc monomethionine aspartate and Magnesium Aspartate) is a supplement used by bodybuilders and athletes. It was developed by Victor Conte (founder of BALCO Laboratories in Burlingame, California) and is a combination of zinc, magnesium and vitamin B6. The formula is “patent pending” and the name “ZMA” trademarked by SNAC System Inc, also founded by Victor Conte. ZMA is claimed to raise testosterone and IGF-1 levels which may aid in gaining muscle size and strength. It is used as a bodybuilding supplement.

29

WOW I could have been reading my own post…firstly let me say Semper Fi…Party with Arty here…if you wanna try something…try the stack I am doing…my results in mood and energy have been great…my love life has picked up also…I am taking a stack of HOT-ROX Extreme…TRIBEX…and Rez-V…been working well so far…though once I am out of TRIBEX I am gonna try Alpha Male…

just a thought…but you really should get the corpsman to check all your blood work…see what your levels are…your definately not the first active duty Marine to have this problem…can’t hurt to have em checked…just a thought

30

[quote]bgdadydnk wrote:
WOW I could have been reading my own post…firstly let me say Semper Fi…Party with Arty here…if you wanna try something…try the stack I am doing…my results in mood and energy have been great…my love life has picked up also…I am taking a stack of HOT-ROX Extreme…TRIBEX…and Rez-V…been working well so far…though once I am out of TRIBEX I am gonna try Alpha Male…

just a thought…but you really should get the corpsman to check all your blood work…see what your levels are…your definately not the first active duty Marine to have this problem…can’t hurt to have em checked…just a thought[/quote]

Thanks, bro. You active duty? Swing with the wing. I’ve always been leery of taking stuff like that, paranoid of testing positive for something.

31

Do I ever know your story! I’m 10 years your senior and have really been dragging the past 2-3 years. Just had some tests run (my HMO just ignored me) and found my T was very low (351) and E high. No wonder I feel like crap. I’m going to try some injectables and see if I can turn this around.

Anyway–I’m a retired Army officer (no Army/Marine jokes, please!). Used to run hospitals active duty, then reserves when I took a job at a top notch medical center for a few years. My best buddy used to be a Flight Surgeon and Life Extension advocate who would gladly treat you if it weren’t for the unfortunate fact he’s in jail now. (sad story)

I understand your concern about medical records. If I gather correctly that you are a pilot, then you have to gauge your relationship with your flight surgeon. Most military docs will engage in an “off the record” discussion without difficulty, but your flight surgeon may not. If you can get a referral to an endocrinologist you should do fine. If you trust and have a good relationship with your flight surgeon, you can ask him off the record if such issues or supplementation are an issue for remaining on flight status. (It can always be a buddy at another base that you’re concerned about.) I doubt that such supplementation is tested for in your flight physical.

That being said, if you find you do have low testosterone, you may well find that supplements aren’t in the military formulary, so the doc won’t be able to give them to you anyway. Some docs just won’t recommend things they can’t prescribe. If you’ve got a buddy with connections at the base hospital, the formulary is usually published and readily accessible.

My point is that if you think that’s risky, and the Navy docs can’t give you what you need anyway, why get them involved?

You might want to have private testing done. (A little expensive, but you pilots always seem to have extra spending money at the O’Club.) Actually I’ve seen posts here for the Life Extension Foundation which does the testing pretty cheap. I had mine done through amifl.com, cost $250.

BTW, I’ve worked with a few Marine officers and quite a few non-comms over the years and y’all are a stellar bunch.
Semper Fi.
(Am I allowed to say that if I’m Army?)

32

[quote]Joe Average wrote:
Do I ever know your story! I’m 10 years your senior and have really been dragging the past 2-3 years. Just had some tests run (my HMO just ignored me) and found my T was very low (351) and E high. No wonder I feel like crap. I’m going to try some injectables and see if I can turn this around.

Anyway–I’m a retired Army officer (no Army/Marine jokes, please!). Used to run hospitals active duty, then reserves when I took a job at a top notch medical center for a few years. My best buddy used to be a Flight Surgeon and Life Extension advocate who would gladly treat you if it weren’t for the unfortunate fact he’s in jail now. (sad story)

I understand your concern about medical records. If I gather correctly that you are a pilot, then you have to gauge your relationship with your flight surgeon. Most military docs will engage in an “off the record” discussion without difficulty, but your flight surgeon may not. If you can get a referral to an endocrinologist you should do fine. If you trust and have a good relationship with your flight surgeon, you can ask him off the record if such issues or supplementation are an issue for remaining on flight status. (It can always be a buddy at another base that you’re concerned about.) I doubt that such supplementation is tested for in your flight physical.

That being said, if you find you do have low testosterone, you may well find that supplements aren’t in the military formulary, so the doc won’t be able to give them to you anyway. Some docs just won’t recommend things they can’t prescribe. If you’ve got a buddy with connections at the base hospital, the formulary is usually published and readily accessible.

My point is that if you think that’s risky, and the Navy docs can’t give you what you need anyway, why get them involved?

You might want to have private testing done. (A little expensive, but you pilots always seem to have extra spending money at the O’Club.) Actually I’ve seen posts here for the Life Extension Foundation which does the testing pretty cheap. I had mine done through amifl.com, cost $250.

BTW, I’ve worked with a few Marine officers and quite a few non-comms over the years and y’all are a stellar bunch.
Semper Fi.
(Am I allowed to say that if I’m Army?)
[/quote]

Not a pilot, I’m an aircraft maintenance officer. No pilot’s bonus for me. Thanks for the gouge. Dealing with Navy medicine, EVERYTHING you tell your doc goes straight in your permanent record. My dad is a retired navy doctor, maybe I should start with him.

33

[quote]PGJ wrote:
Semper Fi.
(Am I allowed to say that if I’m Army?)
[/quote]
Hell yes!!!

[quote]
My dad is a retired navy doctor, maybe I should start with him. [/quote]
Ol’ Pops may have something to tell you that maybe you don’t know about, if you get my drift…If you guys are thick as thieves, this may be the best route to go, IMVHO…
Oh, BTW…Airborne!:slight_smile:

34

[quote]Blacksnake wrote:
PGJ wrote:
Semper Fi.
(Am I allowed to say that if I’m Army?)

Hell yes!!!

My dad is a retired navy doctor, maybe I should start with him.
Ol’ Pops may have something to tell you that maybe you don’t know about, if you get my drift…If you guys are thick as thieves, this may be the best route to go, IMVHO…
Oh, BTW…Airborne!:slight_smile:
[/quote]

My dad is an old school iron-head. He’s the one that got me interestd in lifting way back in the late 70’s. When he was a Captain in the Navy (Old guy) he was his command’s bench press champion. He’s 66 now and still works out.

35

Sorry been out for almost 20 years…but wish I was still in…lol…I think the biggest thing is getting your blood work done…ya gotta know where you are before you can go to where you belong…I just got my tests faxed to me from Nov and my total test was 355…and I am only 46!

I am on my off days for my cycle…going to get my blood drawn today…my dr is ok that way…I don’t think you would pop for these supps…mostly natural stuff from what I read…but hell I popped for morphine after being in Korea for 3 months back in 84…still say it was the San Miguel and Capt…lol…one thing you could try that has helped me before I cane here is flaxoil…I mix a tbl spoon into yogurt every day…can’t hurt and it is all natural…