T Nation

Depression and Testosterone

Here’s a good read from the Harvard Gasette:

http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2003/01.09/01-testosterone.html

Thoughts and feedback most welcome!

(Esp from our gracious and outstanding female athlete Yo Mamma! For those who don’t know her, read her profile! Wow!! :slight_smile:

HH

Just in time … getting blood results tonight and printed this out to take to my doc.

You have to wonder how much better the responses would have been if they used a higher dose. 2.5 grams of Androgel is a very low dose. The study was funded by the maker of Androgel, which makes it suspect. Don’t get me wrong, I believe testosterone can be beneficial for depression, I just would’ve liked a better designed study by an independent source.

[quote]Bri Hildebrandt wrote:
You have to wonder how much better the responses would have been if they used a higher dose. 2.5 grams of Androgel is a very low dose. The study was funded by the maker of Androgel, which makes it suspect. Don’t get me wrong, I believe testosterone can be beneficial for depression, I just would’ve liked a better designed study by an independent source.[/quote]

the point is that guys with (at the very least) normal to elevated T levels feel better. additionally, there are body comp advantages.

or you can take prozac.

Thanks for the generous introduction, H2. I guess I’m now on your peer review committee.

I just linked to the original article, which was published in Am J Psychiatry 160:105-111 Jan 2003 for anyone who has access to online pubs. Although funded by the makers of the product, the randomization and blinding for the study was tight and the analysis of efficacy was conducted according to standard.

In short, you don’t need a member of the Harvard faculty to tell you AAS make you feel good! Hell, pay me the money to conduct the next study. Any volunteers?

BTW the author has a recent article about body image and attitudes in AAS users Am J Psychiatry 2006 Apr;163(4):697-703

[quote]Yo Momma wrote:
Thanks for the generous introduction, H2. I guess I’m now on your peer review committee.

I just linked to the original article, which was published in Am J Psychiatry 160:105-111 Jan 2003 for anyone who has access to online pubs. Although funded by the makers of the product, the randomization and blinding for the study was tight and the analysis of efficacy was conducted according to standard.

In short, you don’t need a member of the Harvard faculty to tell you AAS make you feel good! Hell, pay me the money to conduct the next study. Any volunteers?

BTW the author has a recent article about body image and attitudes in AAS users Am J Psychiatry 2006 Apr;163(4):697-703[/quote]

You get an A+! :slight_smile:

I posted this thread because there’s a fellow T-Nation member here who’s going through bouts of depression and anxiety. I hope he sees the article and takes it to his doctor.

HH

In my initial consult for low test my doctor first thought I was depressed and wanted me to try prozac. I politely refused and she prescribed me the Testim gel. That did not work very well but the constant “edginess” and irritablity and fatigue declined. It has improved even more since I started on cypionate shots.

This looks like it has what it takes to become a good thread. Here are my blood results:

T total: 591 (ref range 241-827)
T free: 11.4 (ref range 5.5-42) ***
DHT: 30 (ref range 30-85) ***
Estradiol: 18
Total PSA: 1.35 (ref range 0-4)
SBGH: 18 (ref range 13-71)
DHEA: 232 (ref range 80-560)
Cortisol: 13.5 (ref range 6-30)
Thyroid T4: 7.4 (ref range 4-13.5)
T uptake: 38% (ref range 23-39%)
TSH: 1.06 (ref .4-4.0)
IGF-1: 242 (ref 132-333)

(I also found my blood numbers from two years ago. Total T was 280! I didn’t know the significance of that, and the doc made nothing of it. Needless to say, he is no longer my doc.)

My new doc is much more forward thinking and open. He prescribed Androgel due to low Free T and DHT numbers (without me asking for it.)

So, what causes low free test with decently normal total test?

[quote]JOG wrote:
This looks like it has what it takes to become a good thread. Here are my blood results:

T total: 591 (ref range 241-827)
T free: 11.4 (ref range 5.5-42) ***
DHT: 30 (ref range 30-85) ***
Estradiol: 18
Total PSA: 1.35 (ref range 0-4)
SBGH: 18 (ref range 13-71)
DHEA: 232 (ref range 80-560)
Cortisol: 13.5 (ref range 6-30)
Thyroid T4: 7.4 (ref range 4-13.5)
T uptake: 38% (ref range 23-39%)
TSH: 1.06 (ref .4-4.0)
IGF-1: 242 (ref 132-333)

(I also found my blood numbers from two years ago. Total T was 280! I didn’t know the significance of that, and the doc made nothing of it. Needless to say, he is no longer my doc.)

My new doc is much more forward thinking and open. He prescribed Androgel due to low Free T and DHT numbers (without me asking for it.)

So, what causes low free test with decently normal total test?[/quote]

SHBG is your body’s way of controlling how much of the Test in you is usable. When T becomes bound, it becomes useless.

That’s my understanding of it.

I had similar experiences as you, though my T was 169 (can we say ‘eunuch’? :slight_smile: You seem to have pretty decent numbers now, though Oasis Longevity will get you higher. (BTW: I’m going with them very soon.)

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
JOG wrote:
This looks like it has what it takes to become a good thread. Here are my blood results:

T total: 591 (ref range 241-827)
T free: 11.4 (ref range 5.5-42) ***
DHT: 30 (ref range 30-85) ***
Estradiol: 18
Total PSA: 1.35 (ref range 0-4)
SBGH: 18 (ref range 13-71)
DHEA: 232 (ref range 80-560)
Cortisol: 13.5 (ref range 6-30)
Thyroid T4: 7.4 (ref range 4-13.5)
T uptake: 38% (ref range 23-39%)
TSH: 1.06 (ref .4-4.0)
IGF-1: 242 (ref 132-333)

(I also found my blood numbers from two years ago. Total T was 280! I didn’t know the significance of that, and the doc made nothing of it. Needless to say, he is no longer my doc.)

My new doc is much more forward thinking and open. He prescribed Androgel due to low Free T and DHT numbers (without me asking for it.)

So, what causes low free test with decently normal total test?

SHBG is your body’s way of controlling how much of the Test in you is usable. When T becomes bound, it becomes useless.

That’s my understanding of it.

I had similar experiences as you, though my T was 169 (can we say ‘eunuch’? :slight_smile: You seem to have pretty decent numbers now, though Oasis Longevity will get you higher. (BTW: I’m going with them very soon.)

[/quote]

Before I got to the bottom of your post I was going to point out the low DHT. If you don’t mind me asking, have you had any sexual dysfunction? Low DHT and sexual dysfunction run hand in hand. The gels raise DHT more than the injections so starting with Androgel seems like the best place to start.

What time did you get your blood work done? If it’s in the morning, your cortisol should be around the top of the range. Anything lower may indicate some adrenal insufficiency.

Cortisol levels should be optimized before engaging thyroid and testosterone therapy. If you don’t get the desired effects from the TRT that you’re looking for I’d suggest checking out your cortisol levels next. If your blood work was done later in the day though I wouldn’t sweat it.

[quote]Bri Hildebrandt wrote:
Before I got to the bottom of your post I was going to point out the low DHT. If you don’t mind me asking, have you had any sexual dysfunction? Low DHT and sexual dysfunction run hand in hand. The gels raise DHT more than the injections so starting with Androgel seems like the best place to start.

What time did you get your blood work done? If it’s in the morning, your cortisol should be around the top of the range. Anything lower may indicate some adrenal insufficiency.

Cortisol levels should be optimized before engaging thyroid and testosterone therapy. If you don’t get the desired effects from the TRT that you’re looking for I’d suggest checking out your cortisol levels next. If your blood work was done later in the day though I wouldn’t sweat it.[/quote]

(1) yes, a big part of why i went in
(2) AM, after a ~ 10 hour fast
(3) i’m not following you on the optimization of cortisol … will look in to it

[quote]JOG wrote:
Bri Hildebrandt wrote:
Before I got to the bottom of your post I was going to point out the low DHT. If you don’t mind me asking, have you had any sexual dysfunction? Low DHT and sexual dysfunction run hand in hand. The gels raise DHT more than the injections so starting with Androgel seems like the best place to start.

What time did you get your blood work done? If it’s in the morning, your cortisol should be around the top of the range. Anything lower may indicate some adrenal insufficiency.

Cortisol levels should be optimized before engaging thyroid and testosterone therapy. If you don’t get the desired effects from the TRT that you’re looking for I’d suggest checking out your cortisol levels next. If your blood work was done later in the day though I wouldn’t sweat it.

(1) yes, a big part of why i went in
(2) AM, after a ~ 10 hour fast
(3) i’m not following you on the optimization of cortisol … will look in to it[/quote]

a couple of weeks later, and my boner tells me this is all a total waste of time. he tells me to lift heavy weights and drink good beer and get with that one chick and not to f*cking worry about the rest.

i think he is right.

[quote]JOG wrote:
JOG wrote:
Bri Hildebrandt wrote:
Before I got to the bottom of your post I was going to point out the low DHT. If you don’t mind me asking, have you had any sexual dysfunction? Low DHT and sexual dysfunction run hand in hand. The gels raise DHT more than the injections so starting with Androgel seems like the best place to start.

What time did you get your blood work done? If it’s in the morning, your cortisol should be around the top of the range. Anything lower may indicate some adrenal insufficiency.

Cortisol levels should be optimized before engaging thyroid and testosterone therapy. If you don’t get the desired effects from the TRT that you’re looking for I’d suggest checking out your cortisol levels next. If your blood work was done later in the day though I wouldn’t sweat it.

(1) yes, a big part of why i went in
(2) AM, after a ~ 10 hour fast
(3) i’m not following you on the optimization of cortisol … will look in to it

a couple of weeks later, and my boner tells me this is all a total waste of time. he tells me to lift heavy weights and drink good beer and get with that one chick and not to f*cking worry about the rest.

i think he is right.[/quote]

I think your doctor’s an idiot. What were your numbers after using androgel for a few weeks? It sometimes takes a couple months to get the full effect. Some need the shots to get a better effect as well.

Cortisol needs to be at optimal ranges before thyroid and testosterone is administered. If you’re cortisol is low your body won’t be able to mobilize enough of a stress response in order for the testosterone to work effectively.

Most doctors will look for what is normal rather than what is optimal. My suggestion is to start looking for life extensionist doctors. They are usually the most open minded in regards to well-being and using robust dosages. Unfortunately finding a good doctor is tough, but if you look long and hard enough eventually your johnson will do the same. :slight_smile: