T Nation

demonstrations

In the last few days, the so-called “celebrities” have staged several demonstrations against a war in Iraq. People like barbara streisand, martin sheen, and sheryl crow have made all sorts of comments. My question to you T-men/T-women is: Does this make you as physically ill as it makes me? Every one of these persons are die-hard democrats who are still seething that al gore couldn’t run a decent campaign. They are flabbergasted by the fact that President Bush has done a wonderful job galvanizing our nation to face down tyranny. They are frustrated none of their dim-witted accusations have slowed him down in the slightest. They can’t believe how badly they were trounced in the mid-term elections. In short, they are using their “celebrity” to push their own agendas. As for me, I shall not listen to or buy any of their various products in the future. I will not support their careers if this is the sort of self-serving, small-minded crap that they choose to engage in. I am interested in your thoughts.

Thier rich, ignorant, and they live in fantasy worlds were nothing can hurt them. They don’t realize that not everyone lives in a perfect world like they do. War should be avoided at all costs, but if that is what it takes to oust Saddam, then that is what they gotta do. The only scary thing is that if they take out Saddam, they sure as hell better take out his sons as well.

I agree . . . . But on an unrelated note, MAN, there are some BAAAAAAAD things I’d love to do to Sheryl Crow. . . ! :slight_smile:

Well I think the celebrity backing is the worst thing that the Democrats have going for them. I would say that Barbara Streisand helped contribute to their demise in the past election after that stupid clip of her singing her political song were aired. I do think celebrities need to shut the hell up sometimes and when they start yapping it just makes me take the issue they are pushing LESS seriously.

***Takes out star-spangled banner and starts parading down the street, while shouting “ALL HAIL BUSH, OUR FEARLESS LEADER!!!”***


Seriously, though. Anyone who’s against war is my friend. Having had my own country (Yugoslavia) “strategically” bombed by the USA a couple of years ago, I can’t really say I support US foreign policy. I might be biased, but so are you.

Oh, and by the way, regardless of what you may have heard, it’s precisely this aggressive foreign policy of the US that caused the willful destruction of the World Trade Center and Pentagon. You may disagree, but someone would have to be pretty angry to go through all that trouble.

I really don’t mind them demonstrating. This is America. What pisses me off is when they testify in front of Congress as “experts” on various topics that they know little to nothing about.

Yes it disgusts me. Elitists who think they know best. I see very few veterans among thier ranks…people who have actually served thier country. Hey they have a right to an opinion and I support that but I would rather see our country take out the terrorists before the next action then punish them afterwards. George Bush is a True T Man. I just finished the Woodward Book “Bush at War”. Believe me we are in good hands.

One last thing…what’s with this North Korean Ship and the missles. Now we are going to let them have the Scud Missles…in Yemen of all places. Give me a break. The last thing Africa needs is countries with ballistic missles. Spend the money on tractors, seed, medicine for christ’s sake. Next time can’t we just make that ship sink somewhere on route. I mean I doubt they would hear one of our subs coming would they…hell the Russians can’t even detect them anymore…right.

Gee, Harkonnen, since you have all the answers, should anybody ever reply to anything on the forum anymore?

Let me start by saying that I consider myself a democrat. But I also find these celebrities annoying as hell. They need to get off there soap box and realize that they are famous because they entertain people, not because they are brilliant politicians. I think that celebrities get way too many liberties these days. I also think that Bush is doing a pretty good job. I don’t think that any president, no matter what political offiliation, would be able to due much better with the current situation.
Danny

By your reasoning, Milosovic caused the bombing of his own country. In fact, take it further and you could say that the US should have firebombed Yugoslavian cities because of the actions of the leadership. "The civilians asked for it, right? Milosovic made somebody ‘pretty mad’. Stupid asshole. Just be glad that the US DOESN’T think like that.

I’m happy to see it actually. Why? Because every time one of these celebrity wack-jobs gets on TV and makes an ass of themselves, the liberals shoot themselves in the foot again. Americans are tired of the posturing and the symbolism-over-substance modus operandi that has consistently characterized the Democratic party for, at least, the last two decades. Thinking Americans are coming to realize that when the Democrats have to once again resort to parading out their mini-circus of goofy and empty headed celebs for the political dog and pony show, their capacity for critical engagement with substantive issues is nigh dead and they must, once again, resort to the tired old emotive appeal of the Hollywood left. It betrays the endemic weakness which has come to plague “feel good” liberalism. I hope they continue this type of thing for years to come because it will only weaken them further and will result in moderates and conservatives gaining/maintaining more and more power as was the case in the last elections. Another example of this kind of thing is all the wailing and whining going on about Lott’s statements. Rather than engage real issues, they resort to outlandish imputation of guilt based on ceremonial praise of some ol’ codger on his Bday! It’s entertaining to see them point and whine like spoiled angry children–I gotta admit, I really get a kick out of it.

Milosevic is a bastard, I will never deny that. He did all that his did for his own good and profit and managed to pull out a lot of cash for himself. Too bad for him he’s rotting in his cell.


I know that everyone in the world was subjected to a one-sided view against the Serbs, so I will provide what I believe is an objective view of the whole situation. Read this only if you don’t believe everything you see on TV.


About 50 years ago, Albanians fleeing their OWN country (Albania) were freely allowed into the lower part of Yugoslavia, previously known as Kosovo, which was populated by about 90% Serbs. Over the course of the next 50 years, the population of Kosovo changed to 90% Albanian, 10% Serb. According to statistics, the average Albanian family had about 9 children. Fine.


But the Albanians wanted AUTONOMY. They wanted Albanian public schools. The official language of Yugoslavia is Serbian. Albanians set up their own underground network of schools where they were taught in the Albanian language. Fine.


Then they wanted to break off and form an Albanian country. Not fine. Milosevic refused. Here’s where the shit started to fly.


If you followed the news, you would have heard of the Kosovo Liberation Army. These are basically Albanian militia (armed civilians), who were supplied with small arms (AK-47, pistols). Do you see a problem? How do you tell where someone’s loyalties lie? You can’t tell whether a man is a KLA member or a civilian. This is made worse that KLA was a press-gang sort of establishment. If you were able-bodied, young, and male, you were forced to join.

These militia started killing Serbian police officers who were stationed in Kosovo. The Albanians started the violence. Milosevic ordered the police to fight back. They did. Milosevic, being the bastard that he is, sent in the elite mercenary troops to wipe out the KLA. Trouble is, the mercenaries enjoyed their job too much, so they started cutting up regular people as well. That was going on for about 8 years. Then Mr. Clinton got caught with Miss Lewinsky, so he decided that it’s time to play the hero and save his image by helping the Albanians. If someone attacks someone else they should damn well be ready to accept the consequences.

The Americans went in with planes, and bombed bridges, TV stations (which were spouting Milosevic’s instead of Clinton’s propaganda), the Chinese embassy, power plants, and so forth. Where did they start the bombing? Kosovo. I couldn’t believe it either. They eventually moved North, to Belgrade, the capital of Serbia. The Serbs got pissed off, Milosevic surrendered. A couple years later, he was overthrown by the people of Serbia and now he’s in jail.



Consider if this had occured in the USA. Imagine if a state, for example Texeas, was gradually populated by Mexicans. Imagine if they requeted that all public schools be made in the Mexican language. Imagine that they requested that they break off from the USA and start their own country called Mexas. Based on the American Civil War, I’m guessing that they would all be promptly annihilated. So before you start telling me about how righteous the USA is, maybe you’d like to think about what they would have done in a similar situation.

That’s happening right now. There are Mexican organizations openly advertising that fact. But I’m against the war on Iraq because it would mainly benefit Israel. Although Saddam is a jerk, it really is none of the US’s business. Why should the US decide who gets to have which weapons? If he even uses them, he’ll use them on the Kurds (who the US has shown they don’t care about) or Isreal. That and he has no known links to Al Quaida. So let’s say the US bombs him anyways. This wouldn’t make Arabs like us very much. While they might be happy that Saddam and his sons are gone, they would surely resent the soldiers or puppet government the US left behind.

They are under some mistaken impression that celebrety makes you smarter than everybody else and therefore a need to push agandas. They do need to shut the hell up, because they sound like idiots. They do not know what the hell they are talking about.

I personally have mixed feeling over the iraq thing, but I sure as hell ain't going to let no dumb ass actor tell me how I should think and feel. They can all kiss the inner core of my rectal sphincter.

I agree with what Harkonnen said re Kosovo. The Albanians got what they deserved, and the US was wrong. But the war on terror is right, because it’s not about what’s fair or what’s not. It is an us or them situation. Unfortunately we have a large portion of our own who think that if we just show these people compassion everything will be ok. Evil prospers when good men do nothing-or in this case, help the enemy.

Alex, several things…1) Iraq IS our business whether you like it or not. We led a coalition of countries defending the freedom of a smaller, defenseless country and defeated Iraq in that war. The sole reason we didn’t finish off every single soldier and piece of military hardware that they have is because they agreed to abide by certain terms. They haven’t come close to abiding to those terms and have repeatedly not allowed international inspectors (from that same coalition) into their country to make certain they’re free of WMD.


2) “If he even uses them, he’ll use them on the Kurds (who the US has shown they don’t care about) or Isreal.” I can’t believe you don’t see a thing wrong with this statement.

3) There are multiple links between Hussein and Al Quaeda, and this has been written about many times. That’s not even going into classified intelligence, which might show any number of things. The fact is that you elect leaders to interpret and act on data that you’ll never see. If you’re an American, act like one and stop being a Hussein apologist. I have no problem with people being anti-war in the slightest. Most have some moral conviction that tells them that it’s wrong, and I respect that. Just don’t blow smoke up people’s asses and expect them to go along with you.

That’s happening right now. There are Mexican organizations openly advertising that fact. But I’m against the war on Iraq because it would mainly benefit Israel. Although Saddam is a jerk, it really is none of the US’s business. Why should the US decide who gets to have which weapons? If he even uses them, he’ll use them on the Kurds (who the US has shown they don’t care about) or Isreal. That and he has no known links to Al Quaida. So let’s say the US bombs him anyways. This wouldn’t make Arabs like us very much. While they might be happy that Saddam and his sons are gone, they would surely resent the soldiers or puppet government the US left behind.

Been to war. Hate war. Apollo makes a LOT of sense. Hark is correct in his stateents about his own country but he has a European way of expressing himself that many Americans would find disturbing.

What if Saddam used his weapons against the US, would it be ok to go to war then? I think the whole point is you have a guy potentially with weapons of mass destruction, who has proven in the past to be completely insane. The scariest part is his sons are even more insane. True, the Arabs would resent the US, but they already do. I say ousting Saddam is the lesser of two evils.

I dont get what you problem with Harkonen is. Most of the entire world agree with him.