T Nation

Demon Training (AKA Beyond Failure Training)

I’ve been looking around for a program to start up on, and i came across demon training. I read about it and it looks hard as fuck!!

I was wondering if anyone here had tried it before, and if so, what kind of results were gained from it.

For those who don’t know, Demon Training is a system developed by Trevor Smith in which pre exaustion, forced reps and drop sets are all combined in the manner outlined below. A typical legs workout might look like this (sorry about the plagerism):

Begin performing the extensions in a steady manner (1 second up and 1 second down is a good example). Once you start to go to failure, your partner will assist you in completing an additional 8 repetitions past your failure point. At this point it feels like someone is blowtorching your quads. Your partner immediately lowers the weight by around 30-40% and you continue performing repetitions until you once again achieve failure by yourself. Again your partner assists you in completing and additional 6-8 reps and then immediately lowers the stack by an additional 30-40% and you continue performing repetitions until failure at which time you partner once again assists in you completing an additional 8 reps.

FINALLY, the set it over. You may tend to feel nausea and will definitely have trouble standing, but even more trouble sitting as this is doubly as painful. The first set is always the easy part because you have nothing to compare it to and you will find your anxiety levels building when you are about to start your second set of leg extensions. Repeat the exact same procedure as the first set. At the completion of the second set of Beyond Failure leg extensions you will more than likely be ready to call it a day after a total of 10-15 minutes of gym time, BUT it is not over yet.

Next choose a pressing movement for the legs such as squats, leg presses or hack squats. Load up the bar with enough weight that will insure you get 8-10 reps. Have your partner VERY close by to insure a safe spot and perform your set. As you get to failure have your partner assist in you getting only a few reps beyond failure?.say 5 or 6 and call it a day. That is it for the quads. Next it is on to hamstrings which I can guarantee you have no desire to work.

You will only perform 2 sets of leg curls and you will follow the same principles as you did during the leg extensions. However, you have to pay attention to your body and it is quite possible that after one set of leg curls you will be totally fried and have nothing left. This is because the quads are SO pumped and engorged that it is very painful to perform a curling motion with the legs. At this point crawl your ass out of the gym and try not to puke, but if you have to â??let it flyâ??. Thatâ??s all she wrote for your leg workout. If you have anything left, you did not train properly.

I was thinking about giving it a go. I;m trying to find a reliable method of training I can stick with, and while this is hard, the low volume may make it possible to accomplish

Thanks guys

sounds like a good workout for the spotter

hmm… seems to be aimed towards working hard, wether smart… debateable!

5 to 6 reps beyond failure?

Jesus

If you’re going to annihilate your quads and then go do squats beyond failure you better have the best damn spotter in the world, and a very good ability to keep focused and not break form, otherwise you might be walking funny long after the DOMS has passed…

[quote]alit4 wrote:
hmm… seems to be aimed towards working hard, wether smart… debateable!
[/quote]

Im pretty sure any guy that is almost matching ronnie for size is doing something right.

[quote]MODOK wrote:
Note to self- do not spot this trm91 motherfucker if he asks.[/quote]

lol!

[quote]optheta wrote:

Im pretty sure any guy that is almost matching ronnie for size is doing something right.[/quote]

Trevor Smith died five years ago.

[quote]roybot wrote:

[quote]optheta wrote:

Im pretty sure any guy that is almost matching ronnie for size is doing something right.[/quote]

Trevor Smith died five years ago.[/quote]

Wow thanks for that i didn’t figure that out when i googled him…

a dude at my gym threw 50 pounds on the bar and asked me to spot his bench. he told me he was shooting for 9. he failed on the first rep and made me curl the rest. it worked out cuz i was doing curls anyway but I’m sure he was doing demon training.

[quote]optheta wrote:

Wow thanks for that i didn’t figure that out when i googled him…[/quote]

Sarcasm doesn’t quite have the same impact after a nutsack comment like “almost matching Ronnie for size”. He isn’t “almost matching” Ronnie for anything now (unless you consider Trevor to be more committed to retirement than Ronnie). He hasn’t “almost matched” Ronnie since 2004, and yet, after you apparently Googled Smith and learned of his demise, you [/i]still[/i] went ahead and talked about him in the present tense, so don’t even attempt sarcasm on me.

You rode in on your high horse and rode out on a Shetland pony. Google that.

if a guy ever asked me to help spot his 95lb bench i’d tell him to suck my cock

[quote]optheta wrote:

[quote]alit4 wrote:
hmm… seems to be aimed towards working hard, wether smart… debateable!
[/quote]

Im pretty sure any guy that is almost matching ronnie for size is doing something right.[/quote]

wonder how big the dude spotting his squats 5-6 reps past failure is? :wink:

Nobody at newb or intermediate levels should be fucking around with such intensity tactics anyway. Those should be reserved for guys who are at or near their potential, when these tactics can help eek out new growth, or where the poundages are already super-high and may pose potential safety risks.

[quote]roybot wrote:

[quote]optheta wrote:

Wow thanks for that i didn’t figure that out when i googled him…[/quote]

Sarcasm doesn’t quite have the same impact after a nutsack comment like “almost matching Ronnie for size”. He isn’t “almost matching” Ronnie for anything now (unless you consider Trevor to be more committed to retirement than Ronnie). He hasn’t “almost matched” Ronnie since 2004, and yet, after you apparently Googled Smith and learned of his demise, you [/i]still[/i] went ahead and talked about him in the present tense, so don’t even attempt sarcasm on me.

You rode in on your high horse and rode out on a Shetland pony. Google that.[/quote]

Roybot = win

[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:
if a guy ever asked me to help spot his 95lb bench i’d tell him to suck my cock[/quote]

Lol. Ever seen cross country runners lift?

I’ve done it. It is brutally intense if you’ve got the balls to actually do it right (works much better with machines btw than freeweights IME). But, I really don’t think that it’s a viable long term approach, unless you’ve got crazy good natural recovery abilities, you’re using vitamin S, or even possibly both (and that’s if all other pieces of the recovery puzzle are in place). I burnt out on it after about 3 months.

I personally would advise finding a different program in most cases. It can be good as far as a mental toughness builder (just about anything will seem “easy” compared to BFT), and does produce an insane pump, but other than that I don’t really think it’s worth it.

Ordinarily I’d agree, but in this case, I detected NO malice whatsoever in optheta’s comment, (he’s easily profiled based on his post history thus far).
I’m almost certain the kid just googled “Trevor Smith” for images and plunked the first one he saw (with Ronnie) on the site, without knowing about his untimely demise.

[quote]roybot wrote:

[quote]optheta wrote:

Wow thanks for that i didn’t figure that out when i googled him…[/quote]

Sarcasm doesn’t quite have the same impact after a nutsack comment like “almost matching Ronnie for size”. He isn’t “almost matching” Ronnie for anything now (unless you consider Trevor to be more committed to retirement than Ronnie). He hasn’t “almost matched” Ronnie since 2004, and yet, after you apparently Googled Smith and learned of his demise, you [/i]still[/i] went ahead and talked about him in the present tense, so don’t even attempt sarcasm on me.

You rode in on your high horse and rode out on a Shetland pony. Google that.[/quote]

[quote]tribunaldude wrote:
Ordinarily I’d agree, but in this case, I detected NO malice whatsoever in optheta’s comment, (he’s easily profiled based on his post history thus far).
I’m almost certain the kid just googled “Trevor Smith” for images and plunked the first one he saw (with Ronnie) on the site, without knowing about his untimely demise.
[/quote]

If no sarcasm was intended, then I apologize to Optheta for being a judgemental asswipe. At the time, he seemed to be letting me know that (thanks to the wonders of Google) he’d read up on Smith’s death, and was informing me (with a side-order of sarcasm) that my opinion was neither warranted nor required.

But I guess only he can say how that response was intended.

In my defense, it’s probably best not to start a reply with “wow” and expect what follows to come over as an earnest response. Plus, he has ruffled my feathers once before (not that I hold it against him, but it still factored into my interpretation of what he said and also the severity of my reply).

I was also aware that most people here knew that Trevor Smith was dead, and my saying so was more or less stating the obvious. So you could say that I was braced for a smart-assed comment or three.

My unreserved apologies are his…if they are deserved. If not…well, I’m still a judgemental asswipe. I’m just not going to apologize for it.

Seems a little too intense to remain anabolic to me. Good luck though!