if your delts are lagging prioritize them. Treat them like you would chest/back/biceps, whatever your favorite body part is. Give them their own day or put them first if you do more than one b/p. Hit it with volume and from every angle. hit them twice a week.
I did know WS4SB was for athletes and I was considering playing football for my local college but I was also told it was a good program in general. So I went with it. And Ill definitely prioritize my delts. But like I said, after my classes today Ill put together a program and let you guys look at it. Thanks for the replies.
Sorry but lol @ PX acting as if there is only one way to do things.
Not that what you are saying is inherently wrong, but there is surely more than one way (your way) to go about getting “big and balanced”
[quote]phishfood1128 wrote:
if your delts are lagging prioritize them. Treat them like you would chest/back/biceps, whatever your favorite body part is. Give them their own day or put them first if you do more than one b/p. Hit it with volume and from every angle. hit them twice a week. [/quote]
Simple and true. For any lagging part the first thing someone should do is prioritize them.
[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
[quote]phishfood1128 wrote:
if your delts are lagging prioritize them. Treat them like you would chest/back/biceps, whatever your favorite body part is. Give them their own day or put them first if you do more than one b/p. Hit it with volume and from every angle. hit them twice a week. [/quote]
Simple and true. For any lagging part the first thing someone should do is prioritize them. [/quote]
More volume, more frequency. It brought my triceps up in one year even with the accident.
[quote]buzza wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]RampantBadger wrote:
Just do military press on repetition day instead of a bench/press up variation[/quote]
…but what happens after he leaves his side and rear delts behind?
I don’t understand. Why train FOR imbalances?[/quote]
well,PX the OP is from a beginner,
don’t you think that is better for him to become stronger/bigger on MP,side laterals and rows?
(in plain english= front delts,medial,traps-upper back-lats-rear delts)
I remember to have read in this very respectable forum " first add mass,than the details"(or something like this)
am i wrong?
[/quote]
I think so. Why wouldn’t you do exercises that are effective just because you are a beginner? Definitely want focus on progression for the main movements but theres no reason to ignore effective isolation movements, especially for a laggin part.
[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
[quote]phishfood1128 wrote:
if your delts are lagging prioritize them. Treat them like you would chest/back/biceps, whatever your favorite body part is. Give them their own day or put them first if you do more than one b/p. Hit it with volume and from every angle. hit them twice a week. [/quote]
Simple and true. For any lagging part the first thing someone should do is prioritize them. [/quote]
I disagree.
Someone should rethink their exercise selection before adding anything, imo (volume, frequency, exercises)
Then again I guess you could call this “prioritize”
For the bulk of your shoulder stuff, do overhead pressing and bench pressing variations.
But if you want your shoulders to grow the most optimally, you should definitely do some direct shoulder work, at least once a week, depending on how your training is scheduled… Tri-sets work really great for shoulders though, for reals.
Something like (example of what CT has wrote):
DB lateral raise 3 x 8
no rest
DB front raise 3 x max
no rest
DB cuban press 3 x max
rest a short bit
[quote]JoeyMicas11 wrote:
I did know WS4SB was for athletes and I was considering playing football for my local college but I was also told it was a good program in general. So I went with it. And Ill definitely prioritize my delts. But like I said, after my classes today Ill put together a program and let you guys look at it. Thanks for the replies.[/quote]
You still didn’t answer my question about mind muscle connection.
If your delts and traps are lagging, it’s probably due to poor recruitment of those muscles during the lifts in your current program. You can throw direct work at those muscles all day, but just adding exercises =/= performing them in a manner that will yield growth. I could understand the mere addition of more exercises helping if your program just sucked and completely ignored those muscles, but it sounds like WS4SB does include work for those muscles and for some reason it just isn’t leading to growth.
So let me ask again- can you actually feel the correct muscles at work when you hit medial/rear delts and traps, or are you just moving weights from A to B?
[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
[quote]buzza wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]RampantBadger wrote:
Just do military press on repetition day instead of a bench/press up variation[/quote]
…but what happens after he leaves his side and rear delts behind?
I don’t understand. Why train FOR imbalances?[/quote]
well,PX the OP is from a beginner,
don’t you think that is better for him to become stronger/bigger on MP,side laterals and rows?
(in plain english= front delts,medial,traps-upper back-lats-rear delts)
I remember to have read in this very respectable forum " first add mass,than the details"(or something like this)
am i wrong?
[/quote]
I think so. Why wouldn’t you do exercises that are effective just because you are a beginner? Definitely want focus on progression for the main movements but theres no reason to ignore effective isolation movements, especially for a laggin part.
[/quote]
I can’t think of any reason to avoid them at all.
If some kid avoids side and rear lateral raises, his entire shoulder complex will be imbalanced. I remember Wolbarret on this site doing that type of training and his imbalances were very visible.
It is the most retarded way to train if your goal involves how you look at all. If you want to be an “athlete” train as one.
Sorry about that man. Didn’t see this… But yes. With my rear delts and my traps I actually feel the exercises I do very well. I know soreness isnt the only indicator but I do get very sore working both delts and traps. Also during the exercise and going from A to B I really do feel the movement. On traps I started a few months ago to leave the barbell about an inch off my thighs to put all the stress on the traps and I feel that has helped even though they have yet to look different by much.
[quote]bigmac73nh wrote:
[quote]JoeyMicas11 wrote:
I did know WS4SB was for athletes and I was considering playing football for my local college but I was also told it was a good program in general. So I went with it. And Ill definitely prioritize my delts. But like I said, after my classes today Ill put together a program and let you guys look at it. Thanks for the replies.[/quote]
You still didn’t answer my question about mind muscle connection.
If your delts and traps are lagging, it’s probably due to poor recruitment of those muscles during the lifts in your current program. You can throw direct work at those muscles all day, but just adding exercises =/= performing them in a manner that will yield growth. I could understand the mere addition of more exercises helping if your program just sucked and completely ignored those muscles, but it sounds like WS4SB does include work for those muscles and for some reason it just isn’t leading to growth.
So let me ask again- can you actually feel the correct muscles at work when you hit medial/rear delts and traps, or are you just moving weights from A to B?[/quote]
[quote]zraw wrote:
[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:
[quote]phishfood1128 wrote:
if your delts are lagging prioritize them. Treat them like you would chest/back/biceps, whatever your favorite body part is. Give them their own day or put them first if you do more than one b/p. Hit it with volume and from every angle. hit them twice a week. [/quote]
Simple and true. For any lagging part the first thing someone should do is prioritize them. [/quote]
I disagree.
Someone should rethink their exercise selection before adding anything, imo (volume, frequency, exercises)
Then again I guess you could call this “prioritize”
[/quote]
Ya I would consider exercise selection prioritizing lol. For example I had lagging rear delts for a while. Before adding volume and frequency, I changed my shoulder workout from military presses first and rear delt flyes last to rear delt flyes first followed up by behind the neck mil presses. This worked and upping volume and frequency was not necessary. I agree, If I just upped volume and frequency before rethinking exercise selection I would have got nowhere.
[quote]JoeyMicas11 wrote:
Sorry about that man. Didn’t see this… But yes. With my rear delts and my traps I actually feel the exercises I do very well. I know soreness isnt the only indicator but I do get very sore working both delts and traps. Also during the exercise and going from A to B I really do feel the movement. On traps I started a few months ago to leave the barbell about an inch off my thighs to put all the stress on the traps and I feel that has helped even though they have yet to look different by much. [/quote]
Ok cool, good to know. Just wanted to make sure you weren’t putting the cart before the horse on running a prioritization routine lol. If you already have the MMC then you have some flexibility as far as prioritization goes, but a couple thoughts:
-
I definitely recommend placing rear delts/side delts/traps before any overhead pressing in your workouts, since that will pre-exhaust those muscle groups and help engage them to a greater extent on overhead pressing moves.
-
Specializing a muscle group is a bit easier if you back off on other muscle groups- that way you aren’t just putting a greater metabolic demand on the body by purely adding more work- so it might make sense to rearrange your split to hit all non-prioritized muscles once less per week than prioritized muscles. You could get away with just adding volume, but you’ll need to eat for that additional volume. I’m not sure how comfortable you are eating to sustain muscle gains already, but obviously don’t go the ‘more volume’ route if you are really struggling to eat enough already.
Hope that helps. All this is just IMHO, but it’s stuff I’ve learned from specializing the same muscle groups you’re looking to work on.
[quote]bigmac73nh wrote:
[quote]JoeyMicas11 wrote:
Sorry about that man. Didn’t see this… But yes. With my rear delts and my traps I actually feel the exercises I do very well. I know soreness isnt the only indicator but I do get very sore working both delts and traps. Also during the exercise and going from A to B I really do feel the movement. On traps I started a few months ago to leave the barbell about an inch off my thighs to put all the stress on the traps and I feel that has helped even though they have yet to look different by much. [/quote]
Ok cool, good to know. Just wanted to make sure you weren’t putting the cart before the horse on running a prioritization routine lol. If you already have the MMC then you have some flexibility as far as prioritization goes, but a couple thoughts:
-
I definitely recommend placing rear delts/side delts/traps before any overhead pressing in your workouts, since that will pre-exhaust those muscle groups and help engage them to a greater extent on overhead pressing moves.
-
Specializing a muscle group is a bit easier if you back off on other muscle groups- that way you aren’t just putting a greater metabolic demand on the body by purely adding more work- so it might make sense to rearrange your split to hit all non-prioritized muscles once less per week than prioritized muscles. You could get away with just adding volume, but you’ll need to eat for that additional volume. I’m not sure how comfortable you are eating to sustain muscle gains already, but obviously don’t go the ‘more volume’ route if you are really struggling to eat enough already.
Hope that helps. All this is just IMHO, but it’s stuff I’ve learned from specializing the same muscle groups you’re looking to work on. [/quote]
Thanks for the info. Makes sense. However in ws4sb I am not doing any overhead press movements. The only one that comes a little close is a low incline db press which is obv nowhere near where I should be. Lol. So I’m going to look into a muscle group per day and post a workout. But I will definitely add in your suggestion. Thanks
Also. Since I have a lot of people throwing suggestions and offering help I figure I should post what I’m doing now even though I know a lot of you are familiar with ws4sb. I think since I am not playing football I will try a muscle group per day. Here’s what I’m doing now
:Monday-Max effort Upper Body
Bench Press- Work up to a max set of 3-5 reps
Incline DB Press- 2x15-20 (Same weight for each set, rest 3-4 mins)
Seated Rows Superset with Scarecrows 3-4 supersets of 8-12 reps each
DB Shrugs 3-4x 8-15
Barbell Curls 3-4x8-15
Tuesday
Box Jumps 5-8x1-3 jumps
StepUps 2-3x8-10 (Box slightly above knee)
Romanian Deadlifts 3x8-12
Russian Barbell twists 4x10-15
Thursday-Rep Upper Body
DB bench 4x12-15
Straight arm pulldowns
Superset with/
Rear delt flyes3 or 4x8-12
DB L raises 4x8-12
DB Shrugs or Barbell shrugs
Superset with/
DB zottman curl 3x8-10
Friday-Max Effort Lower Body
Trap Bar Deadlifts- Work up to a max set of 3-5 reps
Forward sled Drags 3x30yards
Reverse Hyperextensions 3x8-12
Ab Circuit 2 or 3 sets
[quote]JoeyMicas11 wrote:
Thanks for the info. Makes sense. However in ws4sb I am not doing any overhead press movements. The only one that comes a little close is a low incline db press which is obv nowhere near where I should be. Lol. So I’m going to look into a muscle group per day and post a workout. But I will definitely add in your suggestion. Thanks [/quote]
Interesting. Shows how familiar I am with WS4SB lol. The addition of some vertical pressing moves will probably do you some good anyway. Are you trying to keep to 4 workouts a week?
[quote]bigmac73nh wrote:
[quote]JoeyMicas11 wrote:
Thanks for the info. Makes sense. However in ws4sb I am not doing any overhead press movements. The only one that comes a little close is a low incline db press which is obv nowhere near where I should be. Lol. So I’m going to look into a muscle group per day and post a workout. But I will definitely add in your suggestion. Thanks [/quote]
Interesting. Shows how familiar I am with WS4SB lol. The addition of some vertical pressing moves will probably do you some good anyway. Are you trying to keep to 4 workouts a week?[/quote]
Dude…why the hell would anyone focused on how they look avoid overhead presses…the virtual key to big delts?
These brand name routines are retarded from what I can see in this thread if ignoring things that important is now in style.
If you want to look good. train like the thousands of people who trained like bodybuilders to pull that off. They got strong as hell at the same time.
I agree. I was just told my a lot of people if im going to follow a program follow it to a t. But I agree X, there’s also no direct tricep work which has impacted me. And big Mac, I would actually like to make a workout consisting of 5-6 days. I feel my body works well with 3500 calories and more volume. However with 5-6 day programs usually comes an arm day and when training bis and tris together it hinders my progress. Atleast that’s what I feel.
what program would have no direct shoulder work (in the form of heavy pressing) whether its for body building or athletics?
THEN WHY ARE YOU DOING IT???
there is no way in hell this routine even makes sense unless the GOAL was to NOT do well at bodybuilding.
I’m just glad I had enough sense to walk up to the big dudes in the gym and ask them what to do.