[quote]dt79 wrote:
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
Most of the time you say some dumb or at least cryptic shit.[/quote]
You and I tend to not agree on things.
[/quote]
LOL. Both of you seriously need to get together one day in real life and have a nice blow party.[/quote]
I don’t even drink. Hard drugs are definitely off the table, as would be the alternative meaning to a “blow party”.
[quote]dt79 wrote:
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
Most of the time you say some dumb or at least cryptic shit.[/quote]
You and I tend to not agree on things.
[/quote]
LOL. Both of you seriously need to get together one day in real life and have a nice blow party.[/quote]
Blow party? Sounds wrong, mate. Anyway, I’m not so sure T3 like parties or anything fun for that matter.
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
[quote]dt79 wrote:
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
Most of the time you say some dumb or at least cryptic shit.[/quote]
You and I tend to not agree on things.
[/quote]
LOL. Both of you seriously need to get together one day in real life and have a nice blow party.[/quote]
I don’t even drink. Hard drugs are definitely off the table, as would be the alternative meaning to a “blow party”.
[/quote]
Ha. Deadlift party then. Drugs optional.
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
So you think I am wrong here? You make it sound like the issue at hand is a matter of opinion.[/quote]
I think you and I tend to not agree on things. I truthfully have no interest in debating matters of training with you due to this fact, and am content to have you believe I am wrong on the matter.
I offer my perspective on things and share my experiences, both successes and failures. People can choose to utilize what I share for their own training, or they can think I’m wrong and not utilize it. Either way is fine with me, as I feel no real compelling need to prove myself right or wrong.
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
So you think I am wrong here? You make it sound like the issue at hand is a matter of opinion.[/quote]
I think you and I tend to not agree on things. I truthfully have no interest in debating matters of training with you due to this fact, and am content to have you believe I am wrong on the matter.
I offer my perspective on things and share my experiences, both successes and failures. People can choose to utilize what I share for their own training, or they can think I’m wrong and not utilize it. Either way is fine with me, as I feel no real compelling need to prove myself right or wrong.[/quote]
Excellent epistemic attitude. The sad thing is that many beginners will listen to you since they don’t know better. But hey that is how it is, eh?
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
Depends on the reason you were training the bench in the first place. If all you’re looking at is an upperbody push, then OH press is a great choice. If I didn’t compete in powerlifting, I would’ve switched out bench with OH press years ago. However, if you’re looking for a horizontal press specifically, OHP isn’t going to be as good of a choice.[/quote]
In what context and for what purpose would you use the OH press exclusively? When or why would you want “just” an upperbody push vs the more typical horizontal and overhead press pairing?
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
Above all make ABSOLUTELY sure that you get all the important MICRO-NUTRIENTS, especially ALL minerals. That shit can make or break anyone.
If the body gets all that it needs you can PUNISH it with ridiculous training without breaking down. However, if you fuck the former up, standard training can beat you down.
[/quote]
Please can you list any particular food/supps you use to reach this micro nutrient/minerals goal (of course lots of natural food etc, just wondering if there’s anything specific)
thanks
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
Excellent epistemic attitude. The sad thing is that many beginners will listen to you since they don’t know better. But hey that is how it is, eh?[/quote]
I am sorry that you feel that way, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
In what context and for what purpose would you use the OH press exclusively? When or why would you want “just” an upperbody push vs the more typical horizontal and overhead press pairing?[/quote]
If the trainee’s goals did not include any sort of need for horizontal pressing strength/prowess or hinged upon using the OH press exclusively, this could include that sort of want.
The big takeaway is that the question of “can I substitute X for Y” hinges upon why X was being used in the first place. Without that being established, there is no way to know what can and cannot be a substitute. If one was benching because their goal was to improve their bench press, an overhead press may not be the best substitute (although, anecdotally, I once added 10lbs to my bench by NOT benching for 6 weeks, and just focusing on dips and overhead press). However, if one was benching simply because they wanted to do some manner of upper body pressing work/followed some style of abbreviated training/had limited training time/whatever reason, an overhead press could possibly work as a substitute.
Context is vital, and many times we project our own goals onto the person asking the question, when in reality they aren’t the same. We see this same issue when people critique certain athletes for doing something dangerous because the assumption is that the athlete prizes health and safety over performance.
[quote]csulli wrote:
Stop listening to your body. Don’t let it tell you when it “feels it”; you make it feel it when you want. You are in control; your body is lying to you. You need to get back to the gym and train hard. Training harder and a savage attitude will force your body to adapt out of its comfortable malaise, not rewarding it with more lethargy.[/quote]
Good thinking TO A POINT…
If your form is turning into shit when doing heavy weights it’s probably time to reassess. And that doesn’t mean lethargy.
It’s hard to draw lines in a forum post and say when"form breaks this much you need to back off"…
But imagine those guys who come in to the gym every week and they do their 1RM (real MAX – it’s so max maybe they hit it sometimes and maybe they don’t) but their numbers never move. Conceptually, that’s what I mean. You can “make” your body do it…but it isn’t going to benefit you much.
Advice to OP: go back to old routines that you KNOW worked for you. Do them with heavy but gracious numbers. Start making things heavier when it feels good.
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
In what context and for what purpose would you use the OH press exclusively? When or why would you want “just” an upperbody push vs the more typical horizontal and overhead press pairing?[/quote]
If the trainee’s goals did not include any sort of need for horizontal pressing strength/prowess or hinged upon using the OH press exclusively, this could include that sort of want.
The big takeaway is that the question of “can I substitute X for Y” hinges upon why X was being used in the first place. Without that being established, there is no way to know what can and cannot be a substitute. If one was benching because their goal was to improve their bench press, an overhead press may not be the best substitute (although, anecdotally, I once added 10lbs to my bench by NOT benching for 6 weeks, and just focusing on dips and overhead press). However, if one was benching simply because they wanted to do some manner of upper body pressing work/followed some style of abbreviated training/had limited training time/whatever reason, an overhead press could possibly work as a substitute.
Context is vital, and many times we project our own goals onto the person asking the question, when in reality they aren’t the same. We see this same issue when people critique certain athletes for doing something dangerous because the assumption is that the athlete prizes health and safety over performance.[/quote]
Good answer, but I guess I wasn’t clear with my question.
I actually meant “you” in the specific sense, not “you” in the general sense. Since you said that you’d use the OHP as your primary movement if you weren’t competing, I was asking why.
Ah, sorry to misunderstand. I’ve written about it a little bit, but basically, being stronger overhead makes me stronger in general, to include making my bench stronger, but getting my bench stronger doesn’t necessarily work the other way around. I spent a lot of time emphasizing bench in my earlier years, and I wish that time had been spent focusing on overhead.
[quote]Sutebun wrote:
[quote]csulli wrote:
Stop listening to your body. Don’t let it tell you when it “feels it”; you make it feel it when you want. You are in control; your body is lying to you. You need to get back to the gym and train hard. Training harder and a savage attitude will force your body to adapt out of its comfortable malaise, not rewarding it with more lethargy.[/quote]
Good thinking TO A POINT…
If your form is turning into shit when doing heavy weights it’s probably time to reassess. And that doesn’t mean lethargy.
It’s hard to draw lines in a forum post and say when"form breaks this much you need to back off"…
But imagine those guys who come in to the gym every week and they do their 1RM (real MAX – it’s so max maybe they hit it sometimes and maybe they don’t) but their numbers never move. Conceptually, that’s what I mean. You can “make” your body do it…but it isn’t going to benefit you much.
Advice to OP: go back to old routines that you KNOW worked for you. Do them with heavy but gracious numbers. Start making things heavier when it feels good.[/quote]
Well I don’t think anybody’s saying you should max out everyday, but I think you should train hard. You can train hard as fuck without going that heavy.
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
“upperbody push”? Wud? There is a very simple and bloody obvious difference between OHP and the bench press. The former does not involve the pecs much at all and is almost all anterior delts. The primary muscle drivers for the BP are the anterior delts, pecs, and triceps. So it should be obvious why the two should NOT really be seen as substitutes for each other.
[/quote]
You are very right, and yet at the same time, very very wrong. There is an obvious difference between the muscles used to OHP and to BP, that’s so obvious it almost doesn’t need stating. It should also be obvious that the specific goals of the lifter would be the deciding factor in which one should be used as a priority.
[quote]
Most of the time you say some dumb or at least cryptic shit.[/quote]
I’ve never heard Th3Pwnisher saying dumb shit myself. Occasionally I’ve heard him say stuff that went over my head. I’ve got a feeling you’re very much in the same boat on that one.
[quote]dagill2 wrote:
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
“upperbody push”? Wud? There is a very simple and bloody obvious difference between OHP and the bench press. The former does not involve the pecs much at all and is almost all anterior delts. The primary muscle drivers for the BP are the anterior delts, pecs, and triceps. So it should be obvious why the two should NOT really be seen as substitutes for each other.
[/quote]
You are very right, and yet at the same time, very very wrong. There is an obvious difference between the muscles used to OHP and to BP, that’s so obvious it almost doesn’t need stating. It should also be obvious that the specific goals of the lifter would be the deciding factor in which one should be used as a priority.
I’m just breaking into the intermediate category, and switched my focus from powerlifting to strongman because I like OH work. I agree that the value benching is overemphasized. Only my opinion based on personal experience, but squatting and deadlifting improve the posterior chain and posture and do a world of good for getting average office worker strong enough to stand up straight. I don’t think benching has any carryover to improve the day to day life of the average person. Again, from personal experience, OHP has improved my posture and shoulders. In full disclosure, I do incline bench every week as assistance to OH.
Also, from an aesthetic I’d rather have broad shoulders than big meaty tits.
[quote]TheKraken wrote:
Also, from an aesthetic I’d rather have broad shoulders than big meaty tits. [/quote]
That reminds me somewhat of a crossfit look, since they do a ton of overhead work, and almost no horizontal pressing. I think I would prefer the broad shoulder AND meaty tits look.
[quote]Ecchastang wrote:
[quote]TheKraken wrote:
Also, from an aesthetic I’d rather have broad shoulders than big meaty tits. [/quote]
That reminds me somewhat of a crossfit look, since they do a ton of overhead work, and almost no horizontal pressing. I think I would prefer the broad shoulder AND meaty tits look. [/quote]
touché, I reread my comment and it is a little douch-ie. No offence intended to anyone. I have been fighting bitch-tits most of my life, so its a personal thing.
[quote]TheKraken wrote:
I’m just breaking into the intermediate category, and switched my focus from powerlifting to strongman because I like OH work. I agree that the value benching is overemphasized. Only my opinion based on personal experience, but squatting and deadlifting improve the posterior chain and posture and do a world of good for getting average office worker strong enough to stand up straight. I don’t think benching has any carryover to improve the day to day life of the average person. Again, from personal experience, OHP has improved my posture and shoulders. In full disclosure, I do incline bench every week as assistance to OH.
Also, from an aesthetic I’d rather have broad shoulders than big meaty tits. [/quote]
I absolutely agree, and I wish my ego would let me stop benching so much to focus on OHP more. Unfortunately, years of “waddya bench bro” have taken their toll, and I’ve had the shoulder injuries to go with it.
[quote]dagill2 wrote:
[quote]TheKraken wrote:
I’m just breaking into the intermediate category, and switched my focus from powerlifting to strongman because I like OH work. I agree that the value benching is overemphasized. Only my opinion based on personal experience, but squatting and deadlifting improve the posterior chain and posture and do a world of good for getting average office worker strong enough to stand up straight. I don’t think benching has any carryover to improve the day to day life of the average person. Again, from personal experience, OHP has improved my posture and shoulders. In full disclosure, I do incline bench every week as assistance to OH.
Also, from an aesthetic I’d rather have broad shoulders than big meaty tits. [/quote]
I absolutely agree, and I wish my ego would let me stop benching so much to focus on OHP more. Unfortunately, years of “waddya bench bro” have taken their toll, and I’ve had the shoulder injuries to go with it.[/quote]
Not a single valuable argument was made against what I have said, but that was to be expected. Anyway, don’t bother to argue any further as it is a waste of time for any of us.
[quote]TheCB wrote:
[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
Above all make ABSOLUTELY sure that you get all the important MICRO-NUTRIENTS, especially ALL minerals. That shit can make or break anyone.
If the body gets all that it needs you can PUNISH it with ridiculous training without breaking down. However, if you fuck the former up, standard training can beat you down.
[/quote]
Please can you list any particular food/supps you use to reach this micro nutrient/minerals goal (of course lots of natural food etc, just wondering if there’s anything specific)
thanks[/quote]
Most requirements really should come from whole foods (eat those fucking green veggies and fruit), but a good multi-mineral (with chelated minerals) is a valuable extra investment on top of it - Biotest here sell one. Also get in enough potassium, sodium, and especially iodine. Throw in some Vit D for itself but also for absorbing the other minerals like calcium.