Deja Jew

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]StevenF wrote:
Imagine a world with no religion. [/quote]

OK. I am picturing a Soviet Gulags, the killing fields of Cambodia, almost a billion dead Chinese, and millions of children killed in their mothers’ wombs.

Ah, the atheist utopians![/quote]

I would also mention that minus religion, you also remove all hope of some ultimate justice and reprieve for those people.[/quote]

No one is suggesting we force people to give up their religion. I just would like to see what’s beginning to happen in Canada. It’s role in public life wanes and irreligion grows by choice.

Secondly, I think people are better off dealing with the truth, living in reality. What you wrote is nothing but a cope out. Teach people coping skills.[/quote]

Religion of self and religion of government isn’t religion-less.

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Ignorance is bliss I guess.
[/quote]

Is it?

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]StevenF wrote:
Imagine a world with no religion. [/quote]

OK. I am picturing a Soviet Gulags, the killing fields of Cambodia, almost a billion dead Chinese, and millions of children killed in their mothers’ wombs.

Ah, the atheist utopians![/quote]

I would also mention that minus religion, you also remove all hope of some ultimate justice and reprieve for those people.[/quote]

No one is suggesting we force people to give up their religion. I just would like to see what’s beginning to happen in Canada. It’s role in public life wanes and irreligion grows by choice.

Secondly, I think people are better off dealing with the truth, living in reality. What you wrote is nothing but a cope out. Teach people coping skills.[/quote]

Religion of self and religion of government isn’t religion-less.[/quote]

And I’m not suggesting either of those positions…

I’m talking about a lack of belief.

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]StevenF wrote:
Imagine a world with no religion. [/quote]

OK. I am picturing a Soviet Gulags, the killing fields of Cambodia, almost a billion dead Chinese, and millions of children killed in their mothers’ wombs.

Ah, the atheist utopians![/quote]

I would also mention that minus religion, you also remove all hope of some ultimate justice and reprieve for those people.[/quote]

No one is suggesting we force people to give up their religion. I just would like to see what’s beginning to happen in Canada. It’s role in public life wanes and irreligion grows by choice.

Secondly, I think people are better off dealing with the truth, living in reality. What you wrote is nothing but a cope out. Teach people coping skills.[/quote]

Religion of self and religion of government isn’t religion-less.[/quote]

And I’m not suggesting either of those positions…

I’m talking about a lack of belief.

[/quote]

Never met a person like that, so it’s hard to say. Something like a society of psychopaths? No belief in good or evil… yup, that’s hard to imagine.

The truth is that evil is in the heart of men regardless of religion or belief.

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]StevenF wrote:
Imagine a world with no religion. [/quote]

OK. I am picturing a Soviet Gulags, the killing fields of Cambodia, almost a billion dead Chinese, and millions of children killed in their mothers’ wombs.

Ah, the atheist utopians![/quote]

I would also mention that minus religion, you also remove all hope of some ultimate justice and reprieve for those people.[/quote]

No one is suggesting we force people to give up their religion. I just would like to see what’s beginning to happen in Canada. It’s role in public life wanes and irreligion grows by choice.

Secondly, I think people are better off dealing with the truth, living in reality. What you wrote is nothing but a cope out. Teach people coping skills.[/quote]

Religion of self and religion of government isn’t religion-less.[/quote]

And I’m not suggesting either of those positions…

I’m talking about a lack of belief.

[/quote]

Never met a person like that, so it’s hard to say. Something like a society of psychopaths? No belief in good or evil… yup, that’s hard to imagine.

The truth is that evil is in the heart of men regardless of religion or belief.[/quote]

I’m talking about a lack of a belief in a god or gods. You have met those.

We need law and order to have a functioning society. I don’t like having my stuff taken, neither do you, so we outlaw theft. If you want to label that “good” and going against those greed upon laws as “evil” that’s great.

The fact of that matter is, you needed secularists to drag religion kicking and screaming to develop modern day morality… Otherwise Christians (and other religions) would still be stoning adulterers.

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]StevenF wrote:
Imagine a world with no religion. [/quote]

OK. I am picturing a Soviet Gulags, the killing fields of Cambodia, almost a billion dead Chinese, and millions of children killed in their mothers’ wombs.

Ah, the atheist utopians![/quote]

I would also mention that minus religion, you also remove all hope of some ultimate justice and reprieve for those people.[/quote]

No one is suggesting we force people to give up their religion. I just would like to see what’s beginning to happen in Canada. It’s role in public life wanes and irreligion grows by choice.

Secondly, I think people are better off dealing with the truth, living in reality. What you wrote is nothing but a cope out. Teach people coping skills.[/quote]

Religion of self and religion of government isn’t religion-less.[/quote]

And I’m not suggesting either of those positions…

I’m talking about a lack of belief.

[/quote]

Never met a person like that, so it’s hard to say. Something like a society of psychopaths? No belief in good or evil… yup, that’s hard to imagine.

The truth is that evil is in the heart of men regardless of religion or belief.[/quote]

I’m talking about a lack of a belief in a god or gods. You have met those.

We need law and order to have a functioning society. I don’t like having my stuff taken, neither do you, so we outlaw theft. If you want to label that “good” and going against those greed upon laws as “evil” that’s great.

The fact of that matter is, you needed secularists to drag religion kicking and screaming to develop modern day morality… Otherwise Christians (and other religions) would still be stoning adulterers.

[/quote]

Not quite. There is the whole ‘let he is without sin’ bit in the Bible

Not to mention the legions of Christian moralists up until the Enlightenment and further who emphasized morality not independently, but within their own religion.

I am without belief, but to imply history can be boiled down to ‘religion’ vs. ‘secularism’, apart from maybe a very intolerant strain of atheism that has erupted in the last 5 years, is false to anyone with a basic knowledge of history.

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]StevenF wrote:
Imagine a world with no religion. [/quote]

OK. I am picturing a Soviet Gulags, the killing fields of Cambodia, almost a billion dead Chinese, and millions of children killed in their mothers’ wombs.

Ah, the atheist utopians![/quote]

I would also mention that minus religion, you also remove all hope of some ultimate justice and reprieve for those people.[/quote]

No one is suggesting we force people to give up their religion. I just would like to see what’s beginning to happen in Canada. It’s role in public life wanes and irreligion grows by choice.

Secondly, I think people are better off dealing with the truth, living in reality. What you wrote is nothing but a cope out. Teach people coping skills.[/quote]

Religion of self and religion of government isn’t religion-less.[/quote]

And I’m not suggesting either of those positions…

I’m talking about a lack of belief.

[/quote]

Never met a person like that, so it’s hard to say. Something like a society of psychopaths? No belief in good or evil… yup, that’s hard to imagine.

The truth is that evil is in the heart of men regardless of religion or belief.[/quote]

I’m talking about a lack of a belief in a god or gods. You have met those.

We need law and order to have a functioning society. I don’t like having my stuff taken, neither do you, so we outlaw theft. If you want to label that “good” and going against those greed upon laws as “evil” that’s great.

The fact of that matter is, you needed secularists to drag religion kicking and screaming to develop modern day morality… Otherwise Christians (and other religions) would still be stoning adulterers.
[/quote]

So, you are saying that we should get together and come up with a codified system of beliefs, and practices then force that on everyone else and thereby avoid the pitfalls of religion? lol

And you need to read your history books again. It institutions like the Catholic church that lead the way into the modern era of knowlege, science, books, history, medicine, law, human rights, charity, and on and on and on. It’s also ironic that Jesus lead the way in things like women’s rights, and very specifically, not stoning people, even more specifically, for the crime of adultery.

You are really talking out your ass now.

[quote]Bambi wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]StevenF wrote:
Imagine a world with no religion. [/quote]

OK. I am picturing a Soviet Gulags, the killing fields of Cambodia, almost a billion dead Chinese, and millions of children killed in their mothers’ wombs.

Ah, the atheist utopians![/quote]

I would also mention that minus religion, you also remove all hope of some ultimate justice and reprieve for those people.[/quote]

No one is suggesting we force people to give up their religion. I just would like to see what’s beginning to happen in Canada. It’s role in public life wanes and irreligion grows by choice.

Secondly, I think people are better off dealing with the truth, living in reality. What you wrote is nothing but a cope out. Teach people coping skills.[/quote]

Religion of self and religion of government isn’t religion-less.[/quote]

And I’m not suggesting either of those positions…

I’m talking about a lack of belief.

[/quote]

Never met a person like that, so it’s hard to say. Something like a society of psychopaths? No belief in good or evil… yup, that’s hard to imagine.

The truth is that evil is in the heart of men regardless of religion or belief.[/quote]

I’m talking about a lack of a belief in a god or gods. You have met those.

We need law and order to have a functioning society. I don’t like having my stuff taken, neither do you, so we outlaw theft. If you want to label that “good” and going against those greed upon laws as “evil” that’s great.

The fact of that matter is, you needed secularists to drag religion kicking and screaming to develop modern day morality… Otherwise Christians (and other religions) would still be stoning adulterers.

[/quote]

Not quite. There is the whole ‘let he is without sin’ bit in the Bible

Not to mention the legions of Christian moralists up until the Enlightenment and further who emphasized morality not independently, but within their own religion.

I am without belief, but to imply history can be boiled down to ‘religion’ vs. ‘secularism’, apart from maybe a very intolerant strain of atheism that has erupted in the last 5 years, is false to anyone with a basic knowledge of history.[/quote]

No one is saying religion didn’t help society in the beginning.

But tell me, how did Christians come to the conclusion stoning adulterers was wrong when it clearly tells them to in their holy book? Is there source for their morality the bible or using their own mind?

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]StevenF wrote:
Imagine a world with no religion. [/quote]

OK. I am picturing a Soviet Gulags, the killing fields of Cambodia, almost a billion dead Chinese, and millions of children killed in their mothers’ wombs.

Ah, the atheist utopians![/quote]

I would also mention that minus religion, you also remove all hope of some ultimate justice and reprieve for those people.[/quote]

No one is suggesting we force people to give up their religion. I just would like to see what’s beginning to happen in Canada. It’s role in public life wanes and irreligion grows by choice.

Secondly, I think people are better off dealing with the truth, living in reality. What you wrote is nothing but a cope out. Teach people coping skills.[/quote]

Religion of self and religion of government isn’t religion-less.[/quote]

And I’m not suggesting either of those positions…

I’m talking about a lack of belief.

[/quote]

Never met a person like that, so it’s hard to say. Something like a society of psychopaths? No belief in good or evil… yup, that’s hard to imagine.

The truth is that evil is in the heart of men regardless of religion or belief.[/quote]

I’m talking about a lack of a belief in a god or gods. You have met those.

We need law and order to have a functioning society. I don’t like having my stuff taken, neither do you, so we outlaw theft. If you want to label that “good” and going against those greed upon laws as “evil” that’s great.

The fact of that matter is, you needed secularists to drag religion kicking and screaming to develop modern day morality… Otherwise Christians (and other religions) would still be stoning adulterers.
[/quote]

So, you are saying that we should get together and come up with a codified system of beliefs, and practices then force that on everyone else and thereby avoid the pitfalls of religion? lol

And you need to read your history books again. It institutions like the Catholic church that lead the way into the modern era of knowlege, science, books, history, medicine, law, human rights, charity, and on and on and on. It’s also ironic that Jesus lead the way in things like women’s rights, and very specifically, not stoning people, even more specifically, for the crime of adultery.

You are really talking out your ass now.[/quote]

I’m saying we get together and decide what’s wrong and what’s right by thinking out our moral system. Not use a book designed to govern a 2000 year old society for modern day.

Yes they contributed in the beginning, but to get where we are now, you needed people realize not everything in the ‘good book’ actually all that good.

Tell me, how did these religious institutions decide stoning adulterers was no longer just?

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]StevenF wrote:
Imagine a world with no religion. [/quote]

OK. I am picturing a Soviet Gulags, the killing fields of Cambodia, almost a billion dead Chinese, and millions of children killed in their mothers’ wombs.

Ah, the atheist utopians![/quote]

I would also mention that minus religion, you also remove all hope of some ultimate justice and reprieve for those people.[/quote]

No one is suggesting we force people to give up their religion. I just would like to see what’s beginning to happen in Canada. It’s role in public life wanes and irreligion grows by choice.

Secondly, I think people are better off dealing with the truth, living in reality. What you wrote is nothing but a cope out. Teach people coping skills.[/quote]

Religion of self and religion of government isn’t religion-less.[/quote]

And I’m not suggesting either of those positions…

I’m talking about a lack of belief.

[/quote]

Never met a person like that, so it’s hard to say. Something like a society of psychopaths? No belief in good or evil… yup, that’s hard to imagine.

The truth is that evil is in the heart of men regardless of religion or belief.[/quote]

I’m talking about a lack of a belief in a god or gods. You have met those.

We need law and order to have a functioning society. I don’t like having my stuff taken, neither do you, so we outlaw theft. If you want to label that “good” and going against those greed upon laws as “evil” that’s great.

The fact of that matter is, you needed secularists to drag religion kicking and screaming to develop modern day morality… Otherwise Christians (and other religions) would still be stoning adulterers.
[/quote]

So, you are saying that we should get together and come up with a codified system of beliefs, and practices then force that on everyone else and thereby avoid the pitfalls of religion? lol

And you need to read your history books again. It institutions like the Catholic church that lead the way into the modern era of knowlege, science, books, history, medicine, law, human rights, charity, and on and on and on. It’s also ironic that Jesus lead the way in things like women’s rights, and very specifically, not stoning people, even more specifically, for the crime of adultery.

You are really talking out your ass now.[/quote]

I’m saying we get together and decide what’s wrong and what’s right by thinking out our moral system. Not use a book designed to govern a 2000 year old society for modern day.

Yes they contributed in the beginning, but to get where we are now, you needed people realize not everything in the ‘good book’ actually all that good.

Tell me, how did these religious institutions decide stoning adulterers was no longer just? [/quote]

Cause Jesus said, don’t stone adulterers? Because it went against the moral principals of their religion and the moral feelings God writes in every man’s heart?

So, you aren’t against religion. You just think the world would be better off if everyone obeys the religion that you (we) thought up?

“I’m saying we get together and decide what’s wrong and what’s right by thinking out our moral system.” ← this is the definition of inventing a religion, not doing without religion.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

No one is suggesting we force people to give up their religion. I just would like to see what’s beginning to happen in Canada. It’s role in public life wanes and irreligion grows by choice…

[/quote]

Indeed you must feel that way.

This again goes back to my oft repeated point that atheism IS a religion. Proof of it is in your above statement. In spades.

“I would just like to see…” my religion, atheism, supersede the others which I deem inferior. And no, I don’t want to see people “forced to give up their religion”…now anyway…but someday if they don’t come to their senses…some reeducation camps may very well be in order…you know…just to urge them along so they too can see the light…
[/quote]

LOL

Yeah, I want to put theists in camps. You got me bro! /sarcasm

I would never want to take away people’s right to hold personal beliefs.

Try not to twist words in the future.

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Keep going, Raj, you are proving my point over and over and over again. You have no idea how ludicrous you look, do you? Or how weak your argument is.

You’re not just on thin ice with your perception of logic and history, you’ve already fallen through and yet stridently insisting you’re still just ice fishing and have already hooked a big pike.[/quote]

It’s fun to believe things that make you feel good doesn’t it?

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

No one is suggesting we force people to give up their religion. I just would like to see what’s beginning to happen in Canada. It’s role in public life wanes and irreligion grows by choice…

[/quote]

Indeed you must feel that way.

This again goes back to my oft repeated point that atheism IS a religion. Proof of it is in your above statement. In spades.

“I would just like to see…” my religion, atheism, supersede the others which I deem inferior. And no, I don’t want to see people “forced to give up their religion”…now anyway…but someday if they don’t come to their senses…some reeducation camps may very well be in order…you know…just to urge them along so they too can see the light…
[/quote]

LOL

Yeah, I want to put theists in camps. You got me bro! /sarcasm

I would never want to take away people’s right to hold personal beliefs.

Try not to twist words in the future.[/quote]

I don’t believe it’s wrong to take your stuff. You said earlier, you’d lock me up for that. All laws lock people up for disagreeing with a religious belief.

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

No one is suggesting we force people to give up their religion. I just would like to see what’s beginning to happen in Canada. It’s role in public life wanes and irreligion grows by choice…

[/quote]

Indeed you must feel that way.

This again goes back to my oft repeated point that atheism IS a religion. Proof of it is in your above statement. In spades.

“I would just like to see…” my religion, atheism, supersede the others which I deem inferior. And no, I don’t want to see people “forced to give up their religion”…now anyway…but someday if they don’t come to their senses…some reeducation camps may very well be in order…you know…just to urge them along so they too can see the light…
[/quote]

LOL

Yeah, I want to put theists in camps. You got me bro! /sarcasm

I would never want to take away people’s right to hold personal beliefs.

Try not to twist words in the future.[/quote]

I don’t believe it’s wrong to take your stuff. You said earlier, you’d lock me up for that. All laws lock people up for disagreeing with a religious belief.[/quote]

So you think it’s okay to steal from others?

You consider criminal law a religion?

Wait a sec

So if we as a society decide to lock up rapists, putting that rule into law constitutes a religion?

Is that what you’re saying?

[quote]therajraj wrote:

So you think it’s okay to steal from others?

You consider criminal law a religion?[/quote]

lot’s of people do.

Believing in it, like you claim to, definitely is.

You are establishing what is right and what is wrong in a codified system among a group of people. You think that isn’t religion?

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Wait a sec

So if we as a society decide to lock up rapists, putting that rule into law constitutes a religion?

Is that what you’re saying?[/quote]

It is a religious belief to establish a rule among a group of people that an action is evil, yes. But again, how do you believe it isn’t?

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

So you think it’s okay to steal from others?

You consider criminal law a religion?[/quote]

lot’s of people do.

Believing in it, like you claim to, definitely is.

You are establishing what is right and what is wrong in a codified system among a group of people. You think that isn’t religion?[/quote]

First answer my question.

Do you believe it’s okay to steal from others in general?