T Nation

Definition of Failure

Hi there,

I know the topic is as old as the barbell you have from your grandpa lying around the corner where your first hustler magazine is still waiting being read again.

I had a discussion with a friend of mine and gave him following explenation:

Failure: When you “fail” to complete your rep in full ROM with clean technique from the beginning to the end of the motion.
So if you lift a rep and its your 12 rpm,failure will occur if you try to lift a 13th rep.
If you just finish the set with this last possible (12th) rep-even it was damn tough and you squeezed it out,failure didn´t occured because you didn´t failed to compete the rep.simple enough.

Concentric failure:the point at which -cause of fatigue- you are stuck in the motion before you can fully complete a rep.

Isometric failure: When you still keep pushing the weight at the point of concentric failure (even when its not moving anymore) but then you have to lower it cause of the fatigue given.So you can´t hold it in that isometric position anymore.

Excentric failure: When you are not abel to lower the weight under controll anymore.

Do we go the same line or do you have better definitions than me?
science

definition of failure: YOUR THREAD!

now now now, why the hate tribunal !!!

I’ve never seen such a breakdown of failure. All I know is one, doing reps until decently good form is broken down and muscles can’t lift shit properly. Simple as that.

Doing drop sets until you can’t lift the pink dumbbells?
But that’s fairly useless, as CC explained somewhere yesterday.
Most people will never reach true failure.

[quote]tribunaldude wrote:
definition of failure: YOUR THREAD![/quote]

BAAIM!

Failure to me in let see the DB flat bench press, is when I reach my final drop set and I’m repping out the 60lbers. I reach a point in which my mind really blacks out and the DB are barely moving off my chest anymore. I know when I’ve reached it.

I think the definitions of concentric and eccentric failure are right. Concentric failure is when you can’t complete the concentric motion. Eccentric failure is when you can’t control the descent of the weight.

[quote]tribunaldude wrote:
definition of failure: YOUR THREAD![/quote]

Its always funny how much dumb asses and rough wannabees exists in this forum.

I am german and have to state that language does a lot when it comes to humor.
Translation of jokes from one language to the other is simply not the same.

Even if I roll my eyes how many nerds and brainpooped 180lbs jerks are sitting all the time in front of the pc and writing some non productive comments on T-Nation i have to admit its really funny.

Even when tribunaldudes comment sounds aggressive and shows me how childish and cognitive degenerated the main population of the world is,i want to thank the comment because it amuses me.

[quote]colonelquack wrote:
I think the definitions of concentric and eccentric failure are right. Concentric failure is when you can’t complete the concentric motion. Eccentric failure is when you can’t control the descent of the weight.[/quote]

thanks-best reply on my thread.

Chad Waterbury’s definition of failure is when the speed of the movement slows down.
I’ve found that to be a little too imprecise of a definition though.

I’d classify that as “light” failure, and a “hard” or “heavy” failure is where you simply can’t complete the rep, the muscles are 100% spent.

I’d say the general understanding of failure is concentric failure. Unable to complete another positive rep on your own.

Obviously failure is the word we attribute to a set of parameters and therefore different lifting philosophies and practices will have a slightly different meaning behind the word. Trevor Smith would define failure differently. It’s basically when we decide to end a set.

Concentric failure makes sense because that’s generally all you can get to on your own. Eccentric failure requires the assistance of a partner in most lifts. Isometric failure as well.

So… yeah.

Also, on the Waterbury note… Are you sure he calls that failure? It seems he’s using that as a measure of when to consciously end the set… the key being “consciously” ending it… since most bodybuilders traditional understanding of failure has very little to do with choice. I guess if we want to get really loose with the term, “failure” could be any change in physical ability that would prompt us to end the set. Let’s not do that though.

I’d say professor X would probably define failure as when his shirt starts getting a little damp. Sweat is icky. Just kidding X!

[quote]50_Caliber wrote:
Chad Waterbury’s definition of failure is when the speed of the movement slows down.
I’ve found that to be a little too imprecise of a definition though.

I’d classify that as “light” failure, and a “hard” or “heavy” failure is where you simply can’t complete the rep, the muscles are 100% spent.[/quote]

Thats not Waterbury’s definition of failure. His definition of failure is like every other.

The reasoning as to why he stops a set once the speed slows down is to AVOID excessive fatigue, as well as keep M.U recruitment high.