Defining a 'True Christian'?

Blessed Mother Teresa, period. If a true Christian ever lived, it was her. The apostles were complete dicks compared to her. Her biggest regret is that she could not do more to serve Christ.

[quote]BBriere wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]BBriere wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]BBriere wrote:
2. Read and know the Bible
[/quote]

By this rule, wouldnt all christians have to be fluent in Hebrew? Also culturally fluent as to really understand what the writings meant?[/quote]

You don’t have to know how to speak, read, and write Hebrew, but yes, you should have knowledge of what things in the Bible actually meant when written. Christians are only instructed to read and know one book. It shoudn’t be that hard.[/quote]

That’s interesting because I just met 500 “Christians” who can’t read. I’ve been reading the Bible for a long time, it’s not really an “easy” book to understand. And, if it’s so easy what is the four senses of the Bible?[/quote]

I suppose they had committed much of the Bible to memory. There were many in Jesus’ day that couldn’t read, but still knew what the teachings and writings that were to become the Bible said. They studied it. They should be a motivation to many modern Christians that can read the Bible but choose not to. It’s not really that difficult to understand either. God wouldn’t have created a book of mystery and vagueness if he wanted to lead people to him.

I’ll have to admit I don’t know the four senses of the Bible. I was not raised Catholic, but I don’t feel Catholic catechism is necessary to be a Christian. I was raised with Lutheran catechism, but I don’t feel it necessary either. [/quote]

Yes, and they learned it through catechism classes and listening to the priest during mass.

[quote]pat wrote:
Blessed Mother Teresa, period. If a true Christian ever lived, it was her. The apostles were complete dicks compared to her. Her biggest regret is that she could not do more to serve Christ.[/quote]

Word.


Word, she was known to speak in Gospel (a.k.a. she uses verses from the New Testament to speak.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]BBriere wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]BBriere wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]BBriere wrote:
2. Read and know the Bible
[/quote]

By this rule, wouldnt all christians have to be fluent in Hebrew? Also culturally fluent as to really understand what the writings meant?[/quote]

You don’t have to know how to speak, read, and write Hebrew, but yes, you should have knowledge of what things in the Bible actually meant when written. Christians are only instructed to read and know one book. It shoudn’t be that hard.[/quote]

That’s interesting because I just met 500 “Christians” who can’t read. I’ve been reading the Bible for a long time, it’s not really an “easy” book to understand. And, if it’s so easy what is the four senses of the Bible?[/quote]

I suppose they had committed much of the Bible to memory. There were many in Jesus’ day that couldn’t read, but still knew what the teachings and writings that were to become the Bible said. They studied it. They should be a motivation to many modern Christians that can read the Bible but choose not to. It’s not really that difficult to understand either. God wouldn’t have created a book of mystery and vagueness if he wanted to lead people to him.

I’ll have to admit I don’t know the four senses of the Bible. I was not raised Catholic, but I don’t feel Catholic catechism is necessary to be a Christian. I was raised with Lutheran catechism, but I don’t feel it necessary either. [/quote]

Yes, and they learned it through catechism classes and listening to the priest during mass.[/quote]

Well, I guess I should qualify what I meant by I don’t think any denomination’s catechism is necessary. I think a Christian should be instructed in the Bible no doubt. What a person believes about the age of baptism, speaking in tongues, hierarchy of the church, etc is non essential. So long as they believe in Christ the rest is secondary.

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
Actually, I’m quite serious.

My brother is not a true christian either for after having broken his neck, he obstinantly refused to get up and walk after a laying of the healing hands.

Had nothing to do with a severed spine, It was just him refusing to accept the spirit.

That was from True Christians.[/quote]

May I offer an apology on behalf of humanity?[/quote]May I offer an apology on behalf of true Christians… unless somebody already did. Maybe I shoulda looked.

[quote]forbes wrote:
<<< I would say, though this may not be the case for everyone, is that you know you’re born again when you struggle with sin. By that I mean, you become aware of what your sins are, and though they may bring pleasure to the flesh, a battle rages in you to overcome it. This struggle though is constant however and will always be there. Hence the term, fighting the good fight.

I struggle(d) with pornography. No doubt it brings pleasure to the flesh, but the spirit within me knows its wrong. When I wasn’t born again, I said “well Im a guy with needs and its natural”. How wrong I was. Eventually I began to feel bad for watching it. Something inside me said to stop. I st[/quote]Outstanding!!! Yes. And know this. He will never turn down the prayer of a broken heart longing for holiness in His sight. NEVER. I’ve usually had to wait a while to see answers to prayer, but not for this. I ask Him to shine the light of His Spirit into the dark corners of my inner man and it usually doesn’t take 10 seconds.

He’ll show me where I’ve rationalized or justified something. Or redefined it as “not that bad” or “better than it could be”. He’ll give me insights into my own self deceptive corruption I wouldn’t have seen, much less faced in one million years on my own. Specifically and right in my face. Yet He draws me close and reminds that it is just for such things that he shed His blood and that I should always run to and not from Him when sin gets it claws into me. I do just that and beseech Him that He give me a ruthless hatred for that in me which He hates.

Very very good Forbes and to the praise of His glorious grace. I repeat. A person living in a polite, sorta uncontentious relationship with violations of the clear commands of God has yet to understand who He is. Or who and what they are for that matter either.
Proverbs 24:16 [quote]For a righteous man falls seven times, and rises again, But the wicked stumble in time of calamity. [/quote]The 7th of Romans is all about the war within.

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
When I was in jail, Jesus came to me in a dream/vision. It was really vivid. Real or not it affected me for the better.[/quote]

I’d like to hear more about this Matty.

I am a Christian - I try not to get hung up over denominational differences between Christian religions. What separates us is minor compared to what unites us. A Christian is someone who believes that Jesus Christ came to earth as the son of God and died for your sins. There is no emotional experience, hand waving or crying needed. It is an acceptance of the heart and an acknowledgment of the lips. Those who make it more complicated than this usually have other agendas, or are simply confused.


I have nothing to add but this…


I have nothing to add but this…

[quote]ZEB wrote:
I am a Christian - I try not to get hung up over denominational differences between Christian religions. What separates us is minor compared to what unites us. A Christian is someone who believes that Jesus Christ came to earth as the son of God and died for your sins. There is no emotional experience, hand waving or crying needed. It is an acceptance of the heart and an acknowledgment of the lips. Those who make it more complicated than this usually have other agendas, or are simply confused.

[/quote]

My point exactly. I’ve been a member or regularly attended a Lutheran, Pentecostal, and Baptist church. All were vastly different except the fact that all preach Christ crucified. That’s really all that mattered.

[quote]ZEB wrote:
I am a Christian - I try not to get hung up over denominational differences between Christian religions. What separates us is minor compared to what unites us. A Christian is someone who believes that Jesus Christ came to earth as the son of God and died for your sins. There is no emotional experience, hand waving or crying needed. It is an acceptance of the heart and an acknowledgment of the lips. Those who make it more complicated than this usually have other agendas, or are simply confused. >>>[/quote]I will go pretty much along with this. Here is an example of differences between people who consider each other brethren. Blacksheep has yet another fabulous post on the previous page and there is nobody here I am more convinced knows the same God I do. However =] While I believe that in practice we wind up closer than it appears? I must say with much warm hearted humility that I could never embrace his definitions on His last two points.

What matters most is that we both believe that a life of perpetual rebellion against God indicates an individual to be treated as an unbeliever. We both believe that everyone in heaven will be there by the undeserved grace of the Father, in the blood of the Son and the Power of the Spirit and no other way. Which means we both believe that the one true God eternally exists in three persons and that Jesus of Nazareth was a man born God. True man and True God. We both believe that the bible alone and in it’s entirety is the authoritative written Word of God to man. We both believe that Christ was born of a virgin and raised from the dead. We both believe that He will return to Earth in the same physical body He was raised in. We both believe that in the beginning God created all things in six days and man in His own image.

We could either one of us make a long list of perspectives on some things about which we profoundly disagree. The life and death gospel we have in common. As do millions and millions of Christians who also disagree about quite a bit. That’s why this whole thing about “agree with me or die” is a lie.

[quote]BBriere wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]BBriere wrote:
2. Read and know the Bible
[/quote]

By this rule, wouldnt all christians have to be fluent in Hebrew? Also culturally fluent as to really understand what the writings meant?[/quote]

You don’t have to know how to speak, read, and write Hebrew, but yes, you should have knowledge of what things in the Bible actually meant when written. Christians are only instructed to read and know one book. It shoudn’t be that hard.[/quote]

But to actually know that you’d have to be fluent in the language and its contextual use.

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
When I was in jail, Jesus came to me in a dream/vision. It was really vivid. Real or not it affected me for the better.[/quote]

I’d like to hear more about this Matty. [/quote]

I will tell about the dream, if there are other details that you would like to know, just ask.

So I’m sleeping, and you just start dreaming, you end up where ever it is your mind goes.
I’m in a stone chapel, it’s rectangular with a trianglular prism top. I will add a basic picture of what it looked like.
Ok, so I’m in this chapel, and I’m sitting on the floor cross-legged, and there’s a bunch of other people in the room, I know they’re there but I don’t really notice their faces. Jesus is talking to us, and I don’t really know what he is saying while he is speaking, but I’m just filled with this really warm feeling of contentment, like I’m just in the zone, or when you’re really cozy when you go to bed.
Anyway, while Jesus is speaking to us, one of the walls of the (stone) building cracks and falls over, like a shard breaks off the wall, it’s not broken right through like a hole, but something is wrong.
So there’s the piece of wall laying before me on the ground, and it catches fire. I’m like ‘Oh no!’, I don’t want this moment with Jesus being ruined. So I start heaving the flaming pieces of wall out the window, but for every flaming piece that I threw out, another piece would catch fire, so I kept going and going. While I’m doing this Jesus comes up to me and says ‘Don’t worry everything will be ok’, so I stop what I’m doing, I figure, 'You’re Jesus so you know what you’re talking about.
So the chapel burns down, which to me is weird b/c it was made of stone. Try lighting a rock on fire ya know?
So the people from the chapel and me, we’re all walking in this bushy desert-like wilderness, and we come to a cliff face with a dark triangular opening or crack as an entrance. On the left-hand side of this entrance, there is an upside-down pentagram. I look at that and I think to myself ‘I don’t need to go in to know what’s in there’. Some people chose to venture inside, but I decided it best not to. So I leave there.
So I’m walking in the wilderness, and I see the chapel that had previously burned down. I walk up to it, and Jesus is standing there. He says to me ‘I told you everything would be alright’.
And that was the end of my dream.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
I am a Christian - I try not to get hung up over denominational differences between Christian religions. What separates us is minor compared to what unites us. A Christian is someone who believes that Jesus Christ came to earth as the son of God and died for your sins. There is no emotional experience, hand waving or crying needed. It is an acceptance of the heart and an acknowledgment of the lips. Those who make it more complicated than this usually have other agendas, or are simply confused. >>>[/quote]I will go pretty much along with this. Here is an example of differences between people who consider each other brethren. Blacksheep has yet another fabulous post on the previous page and there is nobody here I am more convinced knows the same God I do. However =] While I believe that in practice we wind up closer than it appears? I must say with much warm hearted humility that I could never embrace his definitions on His last two points.

What matters most is that we both believe that a life of perpetual rebellion against God indicates an individual to be treated as an unbeliever. We both believe that everyone in heaven will be there by the undeserved grace of the Father, in the blood of the Son and the Power of the Spirit and no other way. Which means we both believe that the one true God eternally exists in three persons and that Jesus of Nazareth was a man born God. True man and True God. We both believe that the bible alone and in it’s entirety is the authoritative written Word of God to man. We both believe that Christ was born of a virgin and raised from the dead. We both believe that He will return to Earth in the same physical body He was raised in. We both believe that in the beginning God created all things in six days and man in His own image.

We could either one of us make a long list of perspectives on some things about which we profoundly disagree. The life and death gospel we have in common. As do millions and millions of Christians who also disagree about quite a bit. That’s why this whole thing about “agree with me or die” is a lie.
[/quote]

My point exactly - I think we should embrace the similarities and disregard the differences between all Christian brothers and sisters.

[quote]ZEB wrote:

My point exactly - I think we should embrace the similarities and disregard the differences between all Christian brothers and sisters. [/quote]

The problem that Catholics have with this is that most Protestant religions reject many of the tenets that the Church holds sacried (e.g., the sanctity of Mary and that Mary remained a virgin her whole life). Additionally, Catholics belief in apostolic tradition. Finally, the Catholic Church stresses that while Jesus died for our sins individually, He also died for the sins of the world, Christian and non-Christian alike. Thus, many non-Christians will make it to Heaven while many “believers” will not (i.e., being Christian is more than just words). Many Protestants won’t accept this.

[quote]Grneyes wrote:
I have nothing to add but this…[/quote]

We know, because you’re a Wiccan. :wink:

I believe in God the Father Almighty Creator of Heaven and earth
And in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord;
Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary,
Suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried;
He descended into Hell; the third day He rose again the from the dead;
He ascended into Heaven, sitteth at the right hand of God the Father Almighty;
From thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Ghost,
The HOly Catholic Church, the communion of saints
The forgiveness of sins,
The resurrection of the body, and life everlasting. =

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
When I was in jail, Jesus came to me in a dream/vision. It was really vivid. Real or not it affected me for the better.[/quote]

I’d like to hear more about this Matty. [/quote]

I will tell about the dream, if there are other details that you would like to know, just ask.

So I’m sleeping, and you just start dreaming, you end up where ever it is your mind goes.
I’m in a stone chapel, it’s rectangular with a trianglular prism top. I will add a basic picture of what it looked like.
Ok, so I’m in this chapel, and I’m sitting on the floor cross-legged, and there’s a bunch of other people in the room, I know they’re there but I don’t really notice their faces. Jesus is talking to us, and I don’t really know what he is saying while he is speaking, but I’m just filled with this really warm feeling of contentment, like I’m just in the zone, or when you’re really cozy when you go to bed.
Anyway, while Jesus is speaking to us, one of the walls of the (stone) building cracks and falls over, like a shard breaks off the wall, it’s not broken right through like a hole, but something is wrong.
So there’s the piece of wall laying before me on the ground, and it catches fire. I’m like ‘Oh no!’, I don’t want this moment with Jesus being ruined. So I start heaving the flaming pieces of wall out the window, but for every flaming piece that I threw out, another piece would catch fire, so I kept going and going. While I’m doing this Jesus comes up to me and says ‘Don’t worry everything will be ok’, so I stop what I’m doing, I figure, 'You’re Jesus so you know what you’re talking about.
So the chapel burns down, which to me is weird b/c it was made of stone. Try lighting a rock on fire ya know?
So the people from the chapel and me, we’re all walking in this bushy desert-like wilderness, and we come to a cliff face with a dark triangular opening or crack as an entrance. On the left-hand side of this entrance, there is an upside-down pentagram. I look at that and I think to myself ‘I don’t need to go in to know what’s in there’. Some people chose to venture inside, but I decided it best not to. So I leave there.
So I’m walking in the wilderness, and I see the chapel that had previously burned down. I walk up to it, and Jesus is standing there. He says to me ‘I told you everything would be alright’.
And that was the end of my dream.[/quote]

Very cool. I can see how a dream like that would affect you for the better.

A True Christian to me:
A knowledge (to some degree) of the Bible, Jesus Christ and acceptance of Christ in your heart, actions and life. A knowledge of, respect for, the 10 commandments. Most importantly, respect for the greatest commandment…a loving and charitable attitude towards each other. (The exception being life and death situations like…Get the fck outta the road, that truck is gonna hit you!)

Optional, non-essentials:
Go to church, belong to any particular denomination,
become expert in the Bible, get baptized, go to confession,
take communion, get married, have children, tithe, pray to saints,
die with last rites. (What if you’re brought up in the sticks
with no access?)

As Jesus said…the most important is LOVE. (OK, sounds like a hippie, but that’s IT!)