Defend Your Friend If He Committed a Crime?

[quote]Swolegasm wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
I just want to say I’m a little confused given the Facebook convo in this thread and discussion in trayvon Martin thread. I mean, this demetri feller with a hispanic last name refers to himself as a n***er but we just learned in “black teen shot” that hispanics are actually white in the event one of them shoots a black. Clarifications please?

Also yes, I would defend a friend. Not necessarily a bro, mind you, but a friend.[/quote]

Leave it in the other thread.[/quote]
No.

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]Swolegasm wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:
I just want to say I’m a little confused given the Facebook convo in this thread and discussion in trayvon Martin thread. I mean, this demetri feller with a hispanic last name refers to himself as a n***er but we just learned in “black teen shot” that hispanics are actually white in the event one of them shoots a black. Clarifications please?

Also yes, I would defend a friend. Not necessarily a bro, mind you, but a friend.[/quote]

Leave it in the other thread.[/quote]
No.[/quote]

Cheese flavoured beer?

[quote]bigmac73nh wrote:

[quote]fisch wrote:
Dudes brother handled it poorly yeah, but he’s doing what I expect any family member or good friend do: defend them.[/quote]

There’s a vast difference between having someone’s back by supporting them through a tough time and getting aggressive against critics. The person who the ‘brother’ was having it out with seemed pretty civil.

People who screw up aren’t beyond accountability, even friends. Without resorting to absurd hypothetical situations, I could support a friend through a degree of screw-ups related to his/her illegal activity, but there are definitely screw-ups that are bad enough to ruin a friendship. [/quote]

Which is why I said the brother handled it poorly, saying the “attacker” was dead and needs to watch his back. That’s extreme. But if my brother or a good friend did this and someone on a public internet fourm said what the facebook person said I would basically tell them to shut up and leave my friend/brother alone.

He made a big mistake, was acting stupid, did something he shouldn’t have and a serious price was paid by innocent people. It sucks and yes he deserves punishment, no doubt at all. Don’t defend the act itself. But he is your brother/good friend, he is going to get punished but that doesn’t mean you have to let other needlessly kick them when they’re down, especially if you know your friend is legitimately upset over the people he hurt/killed.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]GhorigTheBeefy wrote:
THE FUCK IS THE MATTER WITH YOU PEOPLE JUST THINKING THIS IS A MISTAKE?

Wearing white socks with my black dress shoes is a mistake.

Negligent or malicious actions resulting in the injury or death of others is a fucking tragedy. If you are grown up enough to drive a car then you are adult enough to deal with the fucking consequences. I don’t understand the bullshit “it was a mistake” excuse everyone uses. What’s even better is when people cry for the person that fucked up. “Oh now they have to live with it for the rest of their life” or “they’ve been dealing with it for five years”. Who the fuck gives a shit? Not me and not the people that were affected…that’s who. At least this guy is still breathing unlike that little girl that is rotting in the ground.

The driver more than likely isn’t an evil person but they fucked up and now they have to pay. Part of truly supporting somebody is being there for them when they fuck up. The harder part is being the mirror that makes them face who they are and what they have done.[/quote]

If the driver meant to do it, it would be murder. He didn’t mean to, so that qualifies as a “mistake.”

It’s not a mistake that he SHOULDN’T pay for, but it is still a mistake.

I don’t think this kid is going to need anyone to make him “face who he is and what he has done” after this.

It’s a mistake that at one point or another, nearly every 17 year old kid who just got their license could have made. So I have more compassion for the person in this instance. It’s not like he shot them in a driveby [/quote]

Both of these opposing points have merit. I tend to agree with Ghorig more than Irish, but if his parents are worth a shit, they will let him face the verdict like a man. Even if he feels like a turd, if his family pats his back then they’ve failed him as an adult and show him that accountability is unimportant. Take the sentence, do your time in prison, then move on. No bullshit plea bargain or fundraisers to post bail. Tough love is the best love. If he’s got a real pair of balls he will plead guilty and not make a scene out of it.

Irish: Any kid COULD make a mistake. That doesn’t mean that those of us who did NOT make those mistakes should be treated the same as those who did. I never drove recklessly and I never drunk and drive at any point in my life. I wasn’t an angel growing up but I was a responsible driver and I would imagine that my peers who got DUIs and manslaughter charges suffer appropriate consequences.

Soooo…

Guy loses control over his car while testing his limits and takes half a family out as if the were bowling pins and his brother chooses to be a retard on facebook.

Yeah, he gonna kill people dissing his brother, he gonna kill them big time.

With his car, no doubt.

Retard.

He is “not a n**** I wanna be fucking with”?

I dont know about yall, but that sounds exactly like the “n**** I would want to fuck with”.

Admittedly I have a strong contrarian and pedagogic streak, because otherwise I would just let him be and see where that attitude gets him.

I am betting it would include anal rape.

[quote]njrusmc wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]GhorigTheBeefy wrote:
THE FUCK IS THE MATTER WITH YOU PEOPLE JUST THINKING THIS IS A MISTAKE?

Wearing white socks with my black dress shoes is a mistake.

Negligent or malicious actions resulting in the injury or death of others is a fucking tragedy. If you are grown up enough to drive a car then you are adult enough to deal with the fucking consequences. I don’t understand the bullshit “it was a mistake” excuse everyone uses. What’s even better is when people cry for the person that fucked up. “Oh now they have to live with it for the rest of their life” or “they’ve been dealing with it for five years”. Who the fuck gives a shit? Not me and not the people that were affected…that’s who. At least this guy is still breathing unlike that little girl that is rotting in the ground.

The driver more than likely isn’t an evil person but they fucked up and now they have to pay. Part of truly supporting somebody is being there for them when they fuck up. The harder part is being the mirror that makes them face who they are and what they have done.[/quote]

If the driver meant to do it, it would be murder. He didn’t mean to, so that qualifies as a “mistake.”

It’s not a mistake that he SHOULDN’T pay for, but it is still a mistake.

I don’t think this kid is going to need anyone to make him “face who he is and what he has done” after this.

It’s a mistake that at one point or another, nearly every 17 year old kid who just got their license could have made. So I have more compassion for the person in this instance. It’s not like he shot them in a driveby [/quote]

Both of these opposing points have merit. I tend to agree with Ghorig more than Irish, but if his parents are worth a shit, they will let him face the verdict like a man. Even if he feels like a turd, if his family pats his back then they’ve failed him as an adult and show him that accountability is unimportant. Take the sentence, do your time in prison, then move on. No bullshit plea bargain or fundraisers to post bail. Tough love is the best love. If he’s got a real pair of balls he will plead guilty and not make a scene out of it.

Irish: Any kid COULD make a mistake. That doesn’t mean that those of us who did NOT make those mistakes should be treated the same as those who did. I never drove recklessly and I never drunk and drive at any point in my life. I wasn’t an angel growing up but I was a responsible driver and I would imagine that my peers who got DUIs and manslaughter charges suffer appropriate consequences.[/quote]
In general I agree with the “tough love” and accountability sentiments but there are some things in life you just bend and break rules to avoid, such as a manslaughter charge and the corresponding sentence and criminal record. If anything use the lawyer fees, court costs, time and stress for a “lesson learned” but don’t send your kid to jail.

^There is value in that I suppose, assuming:

  1. The kid pays all the lawyer fees.
  2. The parents generally don’t do shit else other than maybe co-sign a loan to pay said lawyer’s fees.

I just can’t see myself as a parent defending my idiot son for something like this. I know my father wouldn’t have, and rightfully so. I’ve learned a lot of hard lessons in life (and in the court room) and if someone bailed me out when things were the worst then I probably wouldn’t have learned those lessons.

[quote]njrusmc wrote:
^There is value in that I suppose, assuming:

  1. The kid pays all the lawyer fees.
  2. The parents generally don’t do shit else other than maybe co-sign a loan to pay said lawyer’s fees.

I just can’t see myself as a parent defending my idiot son for something like this. I know my father wouldn’t have, and rightfully so. I’ve learned a lot of hard lessons in life (and in the court room) and if someone bailed me out when things were the worst then I probably wouldn’t have learned those lessons.[/quote]
Fair enough. My opinion would be to apply double standards to situations concerning loved ones depending on the severity of consequences even if no lesson could be taught otherwise.

In this case I would make the kid pay fees though and I’d take the car too, or refuse to replace it anyways.

Its just a sad situation for all involved.

[quote]simpstr1 wrote:
Its just a sad situation for all involved.[/quote]

Admittedly, but that does not blur the line between loyalty and idiocy.

[quote]njrusmc wrote:

Irish: Any kid COULD make a mistake. That doesn’t mean that those of us who did NOT make those mistakes should be treated the same as those who did. I never drove recklessly and I never drunk and drive at any point in my life. I wasn’t an angel growing up but I was a responsible driver and I would imagine that my peers who got DUIs and manslaughter charges suffer appropriate consequences.[/quote]

I did all of those things and more. If you were no angel, then I was the devil himself, or damn close to it.

As I said, I’m not saying he shouldn’t pay the consequences. He should and he will. But you cannot lose sight of the fact that it was a mistake, and a mistake that - if not all - a severe majority of 17 year old drivers are one step away from many times.

Things like this are as much extraordinary bad luck (for all parties) as they are negligence.

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]simpstr1 wrote:
Its just a sad situation for all involved.[/quote]

Admittedly, but that does not blur the line between loyalty and idiocy. [/quote]

I would defend my brother no matter what he did. He’s my brother.

If he did something like this, and you brought it up and tried to rub my face in it (or his), I’d bust your face open.

It’s different when it’s family.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]simpstr1 wrote:
Its just a sad situation for all involved.[/quote]

Admittedly, but that does not blur the line between loyalty and idiocy. [/quote]

I would defend my brother no matter what he did. He’s my brother.

If he did something like this, and you brought it up and tried to rub my face in it (or his), I’d bust your face open.

It’s different when it’s family.[/quote]

That is, at best, an argument that strong emotions can make an idiot out of all of us.

As long as you do not catch yourself posting something like “I am a bog you would not want to mess with” on facebook you would probably not have gone full retard.

Which is something we all should strive for.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]GhorigTheBeefy wrote:
THE FUCK IS THE MATTER WITH YOU PEOPLE JUST THINKING THIS IS A MISTAKE?

Wearing white socks with my black dress shoes is a mistake.

Negligent or malicious actions resulting in the injury or death of others is a fucking tragedy. If you are grown up enough to drive a car then you are adult enough to deal with the fucking consequences. I don’t understand the bullshit “it was a mistake” excuse everyone uses. What’s even better is when people cry for the person that fucked up. “Oh now they have to live with it for the rest of their life” or “they’ve been dealing with it for five years”. Who the fuck gives a shit? Not me and not the people that were affected…that’s who. At least this guy is still breathing unlike that little girl that is rotting in the ground.

The driver more than likely isn’t an evil person but they fucked up and now they have to pay. Part of truly supporting somebody is being there for them when they fuck up. The harder part is being the mirror that makes them face who they are and what they have done.[/quote]

If the driver meant to do it, it would be murder. He didn’t mean to, so that qualifies as a “mistake.”

It’s not a mistake that he SHOULDN’T pay for, but it is still a mistake.

I don’t think this kid is going to need anyone to make him “face who he is and what he has done” after this.

It’s a mistake that at one point or another, nearly every 17 year old kid who just got their license could have made. So I have more compassion for the person in this instance. It’s not like he shot them in a driveby [/quote]

I hope he gets the maximum sentence…I dont care if it was a mistake, it was a mistake that killed someones love ones. I hope he sits in prison for a long long long time.

[quote]Spock81 wrote:
My kids dad was the driver in a hit and run and it took the police 6 months or so before they finally caught him.
When they did his entire family felt sorry for HIM, not for the kid he killed. His friends and his sister all got together and collected money to post his bail etc…

Poor him, his parents got divorced and he was an angry little child. He needs our unconditional love so that he can eventually become a good person.

Barf.

Nobody ever acted disappointed in him. It was all about supporting him during this time.

I contacted the family of the kid he killed and we ended up talking quite a bit. We shared in our hatred basically.
I felt/feel very ashamed that that person is my child’s father. A lot of times it will kinda slip my mind and then it hits me like, woah, he killed someone, and I get upset all over again.

If even one stupid person in his stupid family issued TOUGH LOVE instead of babying him maybe he would stop being such a pathetic waste of human flesh.

End rant. [/quote]

Your kids dad was the man in question that killed a kid. The fact that you call him your kids dad shows that bias maybe a factor. Sorry, an ally is an ally weight bearing and all.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]GhorigTheBeefy wrote:
THE FUCK IS THE MATTER WITH YOU PEOPLE JUST THINKING THIS IS A MISTAKE?

Wearing white socks with my black dress shoes is a mistake.

Negligent or malicious actions resulting in the injury or death of others is a fucking tragedy. If you are grown up enough to drive a car then you are adult enough to deal with the fucking consequences. I don’t understand the bullshit “it was a mistake” excuse everyone uses. What’s even better is when people cry for the person that fucked up. “Oh now they have to live with it for the rest of their life” or “they’ve been dealing with it for five years”. Who the fuck gives a shit? Not me and not the people that were affected…that’s who. At least this guy is still breathing unlike that little girl that is rotting in the ground.

The driver more than likely isn’t an evil person but they fucked up and now they have to pay. Part of truly supporting somebody is being there for them when they fuck up. The harder part is being the mirror that makes them face who they are and what they have done.[/quote]

If the driver meant to do it, it would be murder. He didn’t mean to, so that qualifies as a “mistake.”

It’s not a mistake that he SHOULDN’T pay for, but it is still a mistake.

I don’t think this kid is going to need anyone to make him “face who he is and what he has done” after this.

It’s a mistake that at one point or another, nearly every 17 year old kid who just got their license could have made. So I have more compassion for the person in this instance. It’s not like he shot them in a driveby [/quote]

Word.

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]njrusmc wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]GhorigTheBeefy wrote:
THE FUCK IS THE MATTER WITH YOU PEOPLE JUST THINKING THIS IS A MISTAKE?

Wearing white socks with my black dress shoes is a mistake.

Negligent or malicious actions resulting in the injury or death of others is a fucking tragedy. If you are grown up enough to drive a car then you are adult enough to deal with the fucking consequences. I don’t understand the bullshit “it was a mistake” excuse everyone uses. What’s even better is when people cry for the person that fucked up. “Oh now they have to live with it for the rest of their life” or “they’ve been dealing with it for five years”. Who the fuck gives a shit? Not me and not the people that were affected…that’s who. At least this guy is still breathing unlike that little girl that is rotting in the ground.

The driver more than likely isn’t an evil person but they fucked up and now they have to pay. Part of truly supporting somebody is being there for them when they fuck up. The harder part is being the mirror that makes them face who they are and what they have done.[/quote]

If the driver meant to do it, it would be murder. He didn’t mean to, so that qualifies as a “mistake.”

It’s not a mistake that he SHOULDN’T pay for, but it is still a mistake.

I don’t think this kid is going to need anyone to make him “face who he is and what he has done” after this.

It’s a mistake that at one point or another, nearly every 17 year old kid who just got their license could have made. So I have more compassion for the person in this instance. It’s not like he shot them in a driveby [/quote]

Both of these opposing points have merit. I tend to agree with Ghorig more than Irish, but if his parents are worth a shit, they will let him face the verdict like a man. Even if he feels like a turd, if his family pats his back then they’ve failed him as an adult and show him that accountability is unimportant. Take the sentence, do your time in prison, then move on. No bullshit plea bargain or fundraisers to post bail. Tough love is the best love. If he’s got a real pair of balls he will plead guilty and not make a scene out of it.

Irish: Any kid COULD make a mistake. That doesn’t mean that those of us who did NOT make those mistakes should be treated the same as those who did. I never drove recklessly and I never drunk and drive at any point in my life. I wasn’t an angel growing up but I was a responsible driver and I would imagine that my peers who got DUIs and manslaughter charges suffer appropriate consequences.[/quote]
In general I agree with the “tough love” and accountability sentiments but there are some things in life you just bend and break rules to avoid, such as a manslaughter charge and the corresponding sentence and criminal record. If anything use the lawyer fees, court costs, time and stress for a “lesson learned” but don’t send your kid to jail.[/quote]

I suppose I’ll get justice, but that doesn’t mean that I am going to do the prosecutors job for him.

[quote]SuperHuman25 wrote:
I hope he gets the maximum sentence…I dont care if it was a mistake, it was a mistake that killed someones love ones. I hope he sits in prison for a long long long time.[/quote]

The maximum is 4 years for involuntary manslaughter. He’s likely not going to get that even that, I’d guess 2 years max, but he has the option of 3 years, 4 years and of course the judge could give him 2 years, 1 year jail time, 1 year probation. Or, the judge could charge him $10,000 max fine and no jail time.

That’s if the prosecution can get an conviction.