Decriminalizing Meth, Heroin, Cocaine, etc

Whether it is legal or not, LEO’s will still be on the front lines when it comes to dealing with people who are drunk and on drugs. Nobody’s going to call Skeeter’s AA sponsor when he shows up at the bar 47 hours into his meth binge, pisses on someone’s car and then decides to fight the first person to confront him about this behavior. Cops will be dealing with that no matter how the substances he consumed are scheduled by the DEA.

The question is whether or not social outcomes will be improved with legalization. I know of more than a few people who NEEDED that jail time to turn their life around. I know of a few people who didn’t.

If we could somehow use fewer public resources to produce overall better outcomes, I’d be on board with it. Knowing what I know about people who are in to hard drugs, I’m not sure making any of these things more accessible, less expensive or limiting their consequences will actually accomplish any of these things.

I also don’t really think it is appropriate to extrapolate the reasoning behind alcohol, tobacco and marijuana policy to hard drugs. I’ve known a few junkies, meth heads and coke addicts over the years, and the behavior that goes along with those drugs is, in my experience, much more destructive to self and others than your typical bar patron or joe six pack.

That said, there’s plenty of horrible stuff that goes hand-in-hand with alcohol, and I’m not trying to understate the severity of alcohol problems. What I’m saying is the percentage of people who use alcohol without major problems is much, much greater than the people can keep their shit together on meth, crack, heroin and other hard drugs.

7 Likes

The voters of Oklahoma passed something similar recently that went into effect July 1st. On the 6th, during a traffic stop local, local sherriff’s conducted a search of a vehicle and found a baggie containing methamphetamine and pipe containing methamphetamine residue, as well as a loaded pistol and a shotgun. Five days earlier they would have been charged with felony possession and possession of a firearm in the commission of a felony. They were arrested and issued misdemeanor citations and bonded out. Guns and drugs/alcohol are about as bad a mix as it gets and they were let go with a slap on the wrist. Most of these users don’t want help and if it were just drug use, I really have no issue with whatever someone wants to put in their body, so long as it doesn’t affect someone else, but it almost always does and all drugs aren’t the same. Along with lowering the amount required for felony charge, every subsequent charge carries the same penalty as the first and they also raised the value of what is considered to be grand larceny from $500 to $1,000. It sickening!

I agree. I don’t think the government has the right to tell you what you can and cannot put in your body. If you want poison then take poison. Prohibition has never worked. Tax the drugs to fund a drug care program that you essentially buy into as you purchase these drugs and be done with it. Require anybody buying heroin or other opiates to purchase naloxone so that they have the tools to handle overdoses readily available and do not have to call an ambulance. Because that’s all the ambulance is going to do is give the patient naloxone.
At least monitoring quality and quantity will provide a cleaner product and be less of a public health risk. Use the tax money from the drugs to setup drug clinics for these people or let them buy an insurance plan that pays specifically for that kind of care.

I don’t think legalizing it will lead to more use. My experience has always been, if somebody wants it they will get it. Prohibition has never been a factor for anybody wanting drugs.
They should, even more than that, make available rehab drugs. So that if people want to privately get themselves off drugs without a public record, they should be able to do that.

4 Likes

Yup… They saved billions… Housing inmates for decades is expensive who knew…oh yea everyone.
People will always do drugs drink and fuck…all this puritan bs just wastes time & $

Maybe I wasn’t clear, I was speaking of substances that prevent you from leading a functional life. I actually think Oxy and Coke were thrown in so if a politician was caught it wouldn’t be a felony.

Calm down and turn off the butt hurt. I was juxtaposing the opposite end of the decriminalizing spectrum. Essentially, Hammurabi’s law. [quote=“H_factor, post:17, topic:231956”]
Just look at the places that decriminalized weed. I went to Colorado and no one was there
[/quote]

I live in the third state to legalize weed. It’s not all roses and sugar plums. [quote=“H_factor, post:17, topic:231956”]
That makes sense. I hope you get elected and we can start murdering drug users.
[/quote]

You do realize, I’ve said in all my posts I would be far more supportive if they actually put into place the services to treat people. God you jump to ridiculous conclusions.

In all fairness here, I know and have known many. I’ve had the pleasure of arguing over deal points with people convinced that they’re coming up with a brilliant solution while speaking gibberish. I have also known people who were making 7 and 8 figures when they overdosed or found themselves in jail and out of a job. There seem to be more people who are convinced they can handle it than those who really can. Even then I’m on the fence when it comes to coke. I have a far harder time with legalizing things like heroin and meth. They need to legalize the hell out of recreational weed though.

Something else that I’m not sure how to address is manufacture and distributor liability. These are inherently dangerous substances without a specific medical benefit. I’m not are how that would work with current products liability law.

Me too, but I mostly don’t like people when they’re on coke, so I say keep it illegal. I say we should make it illegal to speak to sober people or even just bouncers when you’re all coked up. Fine by me. I’ve endured enough conversations with coked-up patrons who have things they want to tell me. Lock 'em up!

If coke was legalized, it’s likely the price would drop significantly and people probably wouldn’t even mess with meth.

1 Like

It’s a ridiculous conclusion to quote what you said and address it?

No butthurt just calling out stupid statements

No disrespect to you, but what’s your point? If PCP was legal it would have made a difference? PCP/ LSD / Thorazine was the worst I ever encountered. I dont hunt dopers anymore, I hunt Afghan dipshits would force the poor to grow poppy to feed the hunger of Americans and Iranians. [quote=“Alrightmiami19c, post:19, topic:231956”]

I’d rather let everyone be free instead of policing what they put into their body based on the poor choices of a few.
[/quote]

Fine with me, as long as they call someone besides the police to handle the shit, when mommy or daddy decides to either kill the kids or go off and die like the ones you described. Look, I would like to think it would change things, if the things were like the way you want, but, I have no faith in that.

I believe in personal responsibility and being a professional. I can kill you with a hammer, a knife, or a gun, and, I still made the decision to commit the act. I use drugs and what I do or what act I commit, is still my responsibility and yes, you are correct, I have seen far more homicides committed because of domestic issues and alcohol. But, they decided to fucking drink, no one forced the crap down their throats. You buy it, you own it

.[quote=“TX_iron, post:20, topic:231956”]

In the end, sure it’s more convenient, even pragmatic, to haul everyone off to jail. But I’d prefer us to take on the challenge of creating a better alternative.
[/quote]

What is a better alternative?

Damn fucking straight.

No disrespect to anyone here, but, I have a lot of experience working drugs, including tracking down the poppy at its source. Drugs cause death and misery and I wish that in a perfect world Johnny could go into his local shop, buy whatever dream powder he wanted, go home, and quietly fade into peaceful bliss. Never going to happen.

The problem will never go away, whether they are legal or illegal because the vast majority of people will never except personal responsibility. It will always be the someone elses fault. Even though this little saying is about people who always have an excuse not to train, but, it applies to drugs. Just get rid of the excuses.

I agree 100%. It’s on the person not the drug. Now, this is in no way saying it should be readily available

Treating it as a medial problem.

3 of my best friends, guys I grew up with whom are like brothers to me, became heroin addicts. Long story short, they found one of them dead in his apartment a couple of years ago from a heroin overdose.

Law enforcement did nothing but make their lives harder, and only served to push them deeper into the shadows, deeper into the underworld which supplied their habits. What they needed was help, not a harder time getting a job at McDonalds thanks to a felony record.

2 Likes

My sincere condolences for you loss.

I respectfully disagree. Law Enforcement did not make them junkies, law enforcement didnt force them to use. They decided to start, to use, and to do whatever to feed their habit. Its on them, law enforcement made their lives harder? no, they did with their decisions.

3 Likes

Thank you, I really appreciate it. Things are brighter now but those were some rough years.

I agree, and I think i didn’t phrase that in the best way. I have no issue with law enforcement, they are people doing their jobs, serving their communities with their lives on the line. Their duty is to enforce the law, and I respect that. I meant it against some of the laws they are sworn to enforce, I was using law enforcement as a symbol of those laws, and that was faulty. Thanks for arguing it.

I believe that they were going to use anyway and fight the long fight, and the current laws create barriers against emerging on the right side of that battle.

And you are right, it is 100% their own fault. I totally agree with you. It may sound weird I know, but I favor decriminalization partially because I blame the drugs so little, and them so much.

I think the availability of it is another matter entirely. Thank you for doing your part to reduce the supply of that junk.

1 Like

I think there is wisdom in skin in the game philosophy. I obviously disagree to the extent. Because I finally have a moment, more of my complete though on this.

There are two challenges, but I feel decriminalizing only addresses one. But first, we must agree to the philosophical belief that one should not use the stated drugs. If that’s agree able, then that leads to:

  1. How do we reduce the amount of individuals who begin using heroin and PCPs (using these two ‘harder’ drugs for argument sake, because it’s damn near impossible to live a normal life and the psychological addiction)?
  • I don’t believe decriminalizing actually reduces to the desire to use. It quite possibly increases the It, because those would would not want to be caught with these particular substances may feel more inclined to exporement because he consequences have been reduced.
  1. How do we support the addicted to recover?
  • Decriminalizing the drugs for repeat offenders who are addicted, possibly homeless and can’t get clean on their own due to psychological addiction offers an interesting solution, PROVIDING that the government follows through with creating the necessary support.

The problem I have is that the solution to number 2 is in conflict with number 1. This is my opinion, and I’ll gladly be proven wrong. I’m a firm believer in skin in the game as an incentivizer for making risk-based decisions. The penalty doesn’t have to be death, but certainly something that increases the risk of expirementation.

I do agree that we aren’t winning the war on drugs. somehow we need to reduce the number of new users while providing a solution to the addicted.

Legal or illegal we need to stop people from ever trying hard drugs in the first place. They have no possible benefits and can only harm you.

I recommend we make every 5th grader (11yo) volunteer at a rehab clinic. Let them experience 1st hand the broken bodies, sunken eyes, missing teeth, vacant expressions… the real human toll that hard drugs cause. Let them listen in on meetings where someone describes stealing from their loved ones or losing a good job or spouse. If that doesn’t scare them off trying that first snort/pipe/needle nothing will.

Oh and stop prescribing opiates for wisdom teeth recovery and sprained ankles etc… Better a few weeks of moderate pain than a lifetime of addiction. If the Hippocratic Oath is really about “Do no harm” opiates should be prescribed very sparingly.

My opinion: You can only make progress in this fight by stemming the tide of new addicts. Trying to mitigate the carnage afterwards with either healthcare or prison misses the point.

3 Likes

When I was in the Air Force, they would give ibuprofen for this shit. After I separated, I broke 2 bones in my foot and they prescribed oxy. I tried the oxy. It did nothing for the pain. Qutie honestly, the pain was like a 2. Flushed it b/c it really had zero affect.

Aren’t you a libertarian lol … I tend to agree though with exposing them to the results of these harder substances. I’m just laughing at the “making them volunteer” statement. It’s like I’m reliving my military days…

1 Like

Glad I’m not the only one who found this amusing, lol.

(not that I disagree, either, but “making them volunteer” drew a chuckle)

1 Like

Sorry. Sell it as a field trip and public service. We all had to do senior projects and community service right?

Seeing ugly things in person has 1000x the effect of books, pictures and video. They will never forget.

How would you folks stem the tide of new addicts? Serious question.

2 Likes

Although it does appear that Portugal has seen positive results from decriminalization; I remain on the fence where hard drugs are concerned. That said; I think it’s important to consider that in the examples presented by LEO’s above, they were not called because someone was sitting in there living room snorting coke or injecting heroin. They were called out because someone was committing what would be a crime independent of the drugs involved. Certainly one could argue the drugs complicated the encounter; however those situations would have required LEO involvement one way or the other. Nothing but respect here for those in Blue; as has already been mentioned all to often our law/policy makers place them in no win situations.

2 Likes

I think a good way to discourage that would be to make everything legal and then the usage would be cut way back…Huh?