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Deca, Testosterone Cypionate Cycle. 43 Y/O

Hey all. Looking for some advice.

43 year old, healthy male. Have been lifting seriously for two and a half years now. Lost around 60 lbs from when I started, 6’3”, currently 187 lbs and at around 13% body fat.

I just got some Testosterone Cypionate and Deca Durabolin as a recommended bulking cycle. The plan is

Test Cypionate - 500mg Week 1-12
Deca - 200mg Week 1-12
10 mg Nolvadex per day

PCT

2 weeks off cycle
Then

40 mg Nolvadex daily for 2 weeks
20 mg Nolvadex daily for 1 week

I’ve been researching different websites and there is a quite a bit of conflicting information.

I have a very active sex life and I want to make sure I do my best to avoid side effects as much as possible. Particularly ED/reduced libido side effects, and gynecomastia, as after losing all the weight and getting fit, my chest has finally reached a point where I feel proud of it - a major breakthrough after being overweight for about three years.

I did a cycle long ago, early 20s. Consisted mainly primo and winstrol. At the time, and with the research available to me, I thought that to be modest enough side effects wise. As far as I remember, I did not experience any noticeable side effects and I did notice a slight positive change.

Does this sound like a realistic cycle and pct combo? Should I stop taking deca sooner and continue with the testosterone till end of cycle?.My body has already gone through a massive change naturally, and my plans are to just do one bulking cycle and one cutting cycle as an extra booster to my physique.

After reading more and more about deca dick, I’m more inclined to go with just the testosterone, as I don’t really want massive crazy gains. More into an athletic body with some size.

Any advice is greatly appreciated

Don’t run Deca if your sex life is important. Too much of a risk IMO. Just search deca dick on here, plenty of guys still struggling 1-2 years later with ED and no libido.

As a first cycle, keep it simple, Deca is not simple. First cycles, guys can make BIG gains on just test alone.

Whew, then buddy Deca is absolutely not the steroid you want to be toying with.

This, the number of Deca dick threads is honestly probably the only thing that is still stopping me trying steroids.

First, you need to get blood work done. Full panel. Check hormones, thyroid, lipids, bloods counts,etc. Hormones should be Total Test, Free Test, SHBG, LH, FSH, and maybe E2.
It is good to have blood work done before hand so you have a baseline for comparisons during cycle and at the end.

You should be checking to see if you are a candidate for TrT before just doing a cycle. Why are you planning to take 10mgs Nolva daily for no reason? Are you prone to gyno? Only take the drugs when you need them, which should be validated by symptoms and/or blood work.

Thanks for your replies,

I did get my bloodwork done, so that is out of the way.

Nolvadex every day I read in an article as preventive. I already had breast reduction surgery once, unrelated to steroids, they just grew during puberty.

When I gained weight, fat concentrated on my breast again. I don’t know whether they means I’m prone to gyno or not, but it made sense to be cautious. Man boobs does things to your ego that are scary.

If I went with just the Testosterone, as I’m probably going to, what would preventive drugs during cycle and /or pct look like?

So your thyroid, Test, Free Test, and all the numbers look good?

Fat concentrating on your chest is not gyno. Gyno is actually growth behind the nipples

If I was you, I wouldn’t even be considering doing 500mgs per week YET. I would start out slow, maybe do 100-200 mgs per week for a few, then up the dosage slowly to see how your body reacts. I still wouldnt being taking any AI’s or nolvadex unless you have symptoms or blood work indicating high E2. Nolvadex isnt going to do anything for high E2 symptoms, just protects against Gyno.

Can you post your blood work (with name blocked out)? What are your testosterone levels?

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Does deca or npp burn like test prop?

Thanks man. I’ll post it when I get home from work.

Nolva twice a week at 10mg should be enough to prevent gyno at that testosterone dose. You’ll want to have a real AI on hand in case it’s needed. You don’t have to break that glass unless it’s necessary, but make sure to have it nonetheless. Some guys get away with no AI, others need a lot. It’s very individual.

If they removed the glands then chances are you’ll never have to worry about this ever again.

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Update:

I was wrong, out of all the things mentioned, only testosterone was tested.

Testosterone
Your Value
392 ng/mL
Standard Range
175 - 827 ng/mL

So, within range but on the lower end?

Is there a particular panel that includes everything? Wondering if I can just get a primary care doctor to order them.

If you aren’t on cycle or TRT you can add LH & FSH to this list.

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Thanks man. This is really helpful.

I got all these done yesterday, I’ll post results when they are available.

In the meantime, I just want to make sure I have everything I need to start my cycle as soon as I have those results.

As far as an AI to have around in case it is needed, what is recommended? I read conflicting information with Arimidex, but it seems to be the most popular?

Once I begin, how often should I get bloodwork done? Just when/if I feel symptoms? If so, what would those symptoms be?

Really appreciate the time everyone takes to help educate. Even though I’ve spent months reading before actually getting the stuff, I’m still very much a beginner with all of this. :+1:

@pumpinsf
Arimidex (Anastrozole) is used when you have serious high E2 issues but must be careful as a little too much can crash E2. Crashed sucks much worse than high imo. Good to have on hand and only use if needed.

Nolvadex (Tamoxifen) can be used for gyno without the risk of crashing E2 but does nothing for high E2 sides.

Make sure you do more reading than this post about them. Especially regarding dosages and if/when to use them.

Finally got my results:

DHT, Percent free Dialysis 1.4% (reference range 0.54 - 2.58)
DHT, Free 4.48 pg/ml (reference range 2.30 -11.60)
Dihydrotestosterone 32 ng/dl (reference range 30 - 85)

Sex Hormone Binding Globulin 43.3 nmol/L (reference range 20 - 49 years old 16.5 -55.9)
Prostate Specific Ag, Serum 0.6 ng/ml (normal range 0.0 - 4.0)
Estradiol 28.5 (normal range 7.6 - 42.6)
TSH 3.95 ulU/ml (normal range 0.450 - 4.500)
FSH 2.0 (normal range 1.5 -12.4)
LH 5.6 miU/ml (normal range 1.7 -8.6)

For the lipid panel, all numbers were within range, except HDL Cholesterol which was low at 34 mg/dl (normal range is >39) . I take Atorvastatin to control high cholesterol problems I’ve had since my 20s. LDL and Total Cholesterol were in normal ranges. Not sure if you wanted me to post the rest of the lipid panel results, if they are all within normal values…

What was somewhat concerning, in my Comp. Metabolic Panel, both ALT and AST returned higher than normal values.

ALT 165 (normal values 0 - 44)
AST 91 (normal value 0 - 40)

I don’t really drink much, Dr ordered Hepatitis tests, and results were negative. She also ordered an ultrasound of my stomach to check if something is going on with my liver.

Glucose was also a bit higher than normal at 101 (normal range 65-99), which is interesting because I don’t really eat sugary and try to avoid carbs whenever possible. I don’t tend to be a drinker - arrived in SF recently, so I’ve had the occasional drink while meeting new people. But not much at all.

Don’t really know how to interpret most of this, other than it seems I’m within normal ranges for most things. My main concern is that these high liver enzymes will prevent me from cycling. And my health, of course. But once you’ve decided and are determined to go through with it, it would just be really disappointing.

@pumpinsf
@unreal24278 can likely tell you about your ALT & AST. I would get your liver checked soon brother. That looks concerning. Some prescription needs can elevate numbers.

Many prescription drugs also induce elevated ALT. Cholesterol lowering agents (such as HMGCo-A reductase), anti tuberculosis drugs, non steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs including aspirin are all known to cause mild elevated liver enzyme.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4267040/

This… surprised your doc wasn’t aware. Statin meds can raise liver enzymes. Also, you should consult an endo about your TSH in my opinion. Further tests should be ordered. Where is your TT?

update:

Even though I gave her the full list and she confirmed she requested TT, those results haven’t arrived yet, so I’m assuming she might have overlooked that.

Last time I tested, the values were:

Testosterone
Your Value
392 ng/mL
Standard Range
175 - 827 ng/mL

But this was several months ago now, so I don’t know if I should roll with that.

Regarding the Liver:

I got an ultrasound and they could see nothing wrong with it, no liver damage - anything at all.

So there isn’t an explanation yet for the enzymes being so high. Something I forgot to mention (because it’s something I never do) is that I’d been on a trip to Colombia and kind of partied in irresponsible ways I never do. One thing in particular that I read could affect these values, but when I remembered and shared with her, she said that it was highly unlikely that it was the cause.

Her impression is that everything is fine? But those numbers are still elevated, so who the F knows. She is referring me to a liver specialist so he can take a look as well.

I can say that this limbo kind of sucks. And the worst part- I’ve been so consistent and motivated with my workout routines for quite a long time - doing a lot of hard work with no enhancements other than regular supplements. I only really wanted to do one bulking and one cutting cycle, kind of as a reward to myself. On a fitness journey, where there really is no one end goal, but a consistent work in progress, the cycle was one definable goal I’d been working towards, which kept me going. And even though that should not be my main source of motivation, the idea that I might not be able to because of those numbers, is really affecting my drive to workout, where I’ve gone from looking forward to my workout as the best part of my day, to literally having to push myself and drag my feet to the gym.

I am about to head back home after a three month business trip, so having my personal trainer around again will really help with the motivation part. Just trying to shift my mindset again to be in that productive state .

I’m half thinking that I might just go ahead and do it anyway, as “the liver looks normal”, but that would be so irresponsible. Hoping I can get more insight once i see the specialist: because it’s hard to understand everything being normal, but the numbers elevated.

One thing I know for sure, after the deca dick mention, is that I’ll just be doing testosterone. I’d be way too paranoid to lose my sex drive or erections, when I’m literally living my best life right now, in that department. I guess that’s the silver lining to all of this. Means I have an extra vial of juice that I can gift a friend for the holidays :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:.

This forum is a great, great community that actually helps me remain accountable to myself. So thanks for all your replies/suggestions. Will keep updating as I get news.

Testosterone results in:

650

So, well within normal range.

Regarding the liver, Dr does not seem too concerned. I’m getting retested to confirm results.

Assuming everything is fine;

Now that all results are here, the only thing I’m still apprehensive about is how/when to use Arimidex. I’ve seen quite a few articles/posts out there, but I feel like there’s conflicting info. Is there a well known post or guide someone can point me towards that explains labwork monitoring throughout a cycle and how to assess the need for / dosage of an AI?