T Nation

Deca Cycle for Injury Rehab?


#1

Well the title pretty much says it.
Forgive me if I make any grave errors, I have zero experience with gear.

I have recently finished recovering from a nagging shoulder injury obtained by.....wait for it....incline bench press. Rehabbing the shoulder took approx 3 months of careful controlled exercise, massage, heat, etc. During this all my pressing movements stalled. Fortunately I was able to shift focus to legs and back work and my pressing is now back to what it was 3 months ago.

I have no medical insurance. All injuries that aren't seriously debilitating must be self treated.

So, I have read here and elsewhere that one of the primary benefits of deca is its beneficial effect on tendons and connective tissue.

I am curious if anyone here has ever cycled this purely for rehab purposes. And if so, how were the results and what did your protocol look like?

To be truthful, I'm not ready for any typical mass cycles. I haven't really hit any hard plateaus yet and my training age is still pretty young. Diet is just now getting really dialed so sweat and food are about all I really need at this phase.

However, the next time I'm stuck with another nagging injury it would be nice to be able to self prescribe in the same fashion that a sports MD could if we still lived in a free country and medical care was affordable.

Thanks for your help.


#2

It's Deca-Durabolin which is Organon's brand name. It's not Decca. You've stated no dosages, you really stated nothing besides that you are injured.


#3

If I call it 19-nortestosterone-17-decanoate will that make you happy?

The injury is fully recovered.

I'm just curious if anyone has successfully self medicated and rehabbed with an AAS cycle.


#4

Nandrolone is only supposed to alleviate joint pain by loading extra water in the area (synovial joints).

I do not think it has any different effect on tendon, cartilidge or ligament health than any other AAS, coupled with regular reistance training and a diet high in EFA's and Protein...

JMO


#5

yes people self medicate, it takes some sort of brains though.you have to know what you are doing and be responsible.
not many have the common sense to do that


#6

I posted this in "HGH for bone density" thread yesterday.

From Steroidology
(originally posted by AnimalMass)

"While injecting test increases protein synthesis by roughly 50 times, depending on dose and time, most bodybuilders forget that it will reduce collagen synthesis by more than 50% -- more like 80%, giving you the collagen synthesis rate of a senior citizen. Since collagen makes up tendons, bros are very prone to injury if they continue to lift very heavy, unless they cycle off T and let their collagen synthesis get back to normal. It's like having the skeletal muscle of a gorilla with the tendons of a very old man.

Winstrol increases collagen synthesis. It will give you bigger tendons. However, your body compensates for this by making them more brittle, weaker, and more prone to injury. I can't tell you how many bros work out anaerobically and become injured while on winstrol. Guys who lift in the 1-5 rep range while on winstrol, to baseball players who sprint all out from a stationary position -- winstrol should be the LAST drug they choose. Most of them like winstrol because they don't get the weight gain from it but it is very detrimental to bros who train for any sport anaerobically. Tendons tear easily on it.

Also, the drugs I mention increase collagen synthesis while also increasing collagen cross-linking integrity, making for a much stronger tendon.

Winstrol, on the other hand, will dramatically increase collagen syn, but ironically it decreases collagen cross-linking integrity, thus making a much weaker tendon.

You can plan a cycle of AAS which will increase collagen synthesis and skeletal muscle growth at the same time. The key is the drug(s) you choose.

Deca, Equipoise, Anavar, and Primobolan will ALL increase skeletal muscle while at the same time dramatically increase collagen syn and bone mass and density, leaving you with a substantially reduced chance of becoming injured than if you choose to use AAS like sus, cyp, or enth.

While testosterone will increase bone mass and density, even at supra-physiological levels, the result is weaker tendons due to inhibition of collagen syn.

To plan a cycle where the goal is to increase skeletal muscle mass/strength while at the same time increase joint/tendon/ligament strength, enough to keep up with the dramatic increase in skeletal muscle, you must choose drugs like Eq, Deca, Anavar, or Primo as the base of your cycle. Testosterone and its esters can be added to your cycle to keep levels within a 'normal' physiological range (ie, 100-200 mg/wk) but must not go above this. Since drugs like eq, deca, anavar and primo will reduce endogenous, natural levels of test, these levels may be maintained with exogenous test in the 100-200 mg/wk range. Test at this dose will not inhibit collagen syn, but paradoxically, will help increase it. It is when exogenous testosterone is used > 200 mg/wk that collagen syn is inhibited.

Deca @ 3 mg/kg a week(about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, deca is a very good drug at giving you everything you want -- an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood.

Primobolan, @ 5 mg/kg, will increase collagen synthesis by roughly 180% -- less than deca and equipoise but still substantial.

Equipoise @ 3 mg/kg will increase procollagen III by approximately 340% -- slightly better than deca.

Oxandrolone has over a hundred studies documenting its effectiveness at treating patients needing rapid increases in collagen syn to enhance healing.

These drugs have longer half-lives than most other AAS, so this should be considered when timing your post cycle Clomid use. Here they are:

Deca: 15 days Equipoise: 14 days Primobolan: 10.5 days

Anavar has a half-life of only 8 hours so it should not pose a problem.

GH is probably the most remarkable drug at increasing collagen synthesis. It increases collagen syn in a dose dependant manner -- the more you use, the more you will increase collagen syn. It has also demonstrated this ability in short and long term studies. From what I've read, hGH at 6 iu/day increased the collagen deposition rate by around 250% in damaged collagen structures. This result indicates that the increased biomechanical strength of wounds to collagen structures treated with biosynthetic human growth hormone was produced by an increased deposition of collagen in the collagen structures.

Eq, primo, anavar, and deca are all good -- they increase several biomakers of collagen syn -- ie, type III, II, I, procollagen markers. GH just seems to do so most dramatically.

Use of any of these drugs @ supra-physiological levels with a maintenance dose of test will increase collagen syn while at the same time increase skeletal muscle mass. Skeletal muscle mass gains will not be as dramatic as with large testosterone doses but you have to weigh the risk/reward basis for yourself. Also, these drugs do not satisfy the libido like testosterone, but that is not the point of this thread. It is only to demonstrate that you can increase skeletal muscle and collagen syn at the same time with certain AAS -- the decision is up to you."


#7

Above and beyond all that I asked for, thank you very much Dynamo.

The planning is still in the embryonic stage at this point. Basically, I want to have a plan for a rehab cycle just in case I wind up with another persistent injury again.

In the meantime I'll keep up with the mobility and prehab work and, hopefully, postpone this plan for a few more years.


#8

Interesting post - i use steroidology too sometimes :wink:

EDIT - I DID NOT POST THIS??!


#9

I was having serious elbow joint pain and since I am already on TRT, I wouldn't have to worry about being "shut down" by adding deca to my treatment. My doctor agreed to 100mg's a week of deca in addition to my already prescribed T-Cyp dose. My elbow pain has reduced substantially; it's not all gone but it only seems to flare up after long bicycle rides, and hasn't flared up after lifting at all lately.

I am also fighting an almost healed brachial tendon injury recently as well. The tendon lets me know it's still there, but it doesn't cause pain or mobility issues if I pay attention to the warning it gives and lower the weights I use.
The doctors from Genesis Health give their patients deca along with T-Cyp all the time, so that is how I persuaded my doctor to do it.


#10

Yeah, testosterone "must not" be used at levels above 200 mg/week or your tendons will snap clean off.


#11

BR,
You are one funny man.


#12

If you didn't, who did??


#13

A couple of times I've written a post and seen it appear under a different person's name. It's been a while since the last time, but it's happened.

So from the perspective of those other persons, what happened to Brook now is like what happened to them.


#14

How am i supposed to know?

It simply is not how i think.


#15

Gotcha Bill. That makes sense as Brook doesn't seem delusional these days. Actually he is focused as a laser beam :wink:


#17