Some of my extended family own a farm … hmmmmmm
Edit: they have bison, I wonder if they get Tren like cows do?
Some of my extended family own a farm … hmmmmmm
Edit: they have bison, I wonder if they get Tren like cows do?
So just a quick update, I started with a test/deca ratio of test 100mg, Deca 100mg.
After a couple of weeks I upped the test to 150mg after seeing soo many people keep around their normal dose when adding deca (as @blshaw states).
I felt fine on this mix as I imagine I should, it being basically 250mg of drugs a week.
Not sure if I’d have felt any different on just 250mg of test? Have done that before and again felt fine, can’t remember if better or worse (possibly more water retention).
However, I did get VERY bad skin after around 5 to 6 weeks. My skin is always bad (had bad skin since I was 15, in the first trial group in the UK to try Roaccutane in the 1980’s. Iit worked great but slowly came back but not as bad or as constant).
I dropped the deca after 8 weeks, the bad skin stopped me wanting to socialize (not that I’m particularly social) and also stopped some training. (just think bad spots + grappling partner = grossed out buddy!)
Obviously one can’t complain if they’re using illegal drugs so I’m happy with the general effect on my recovery from exercise, cant comment of libido etc. as that fluctuates over a week but normally no issues. As I still have most of a bottle left I’m thinking I may try again in a few months, same dose but stop after 5 weeks, wait a few weeks then do again.
Or, do a lower dose (50mg?) for 8 weeks and see what happens.
Or, just take tren
I like readalot cause he always Crush the anti ai retards. However, he is def exaggerating the dangers of aas. Ive been in both professional soccer and hockey in My 20s and 95 percent of us Took aas. It is super super Common within sports and have been for a very very Long time, yet Still, where are the bodies?
It is simply not as dangerous as politics and media wants us to think, period.
At an individual level, I hope so for most.
Complex question and seems disingenuous and rationalizing to an extent. Death from acute toxicity? Nah.
Contributing to early death? Likely for some. You would really have to look since guys aren’t going to show up to the morgue with a sign on their forehead stating “hey, look here, I died from AAS!”
Check out this autopsy report:
How many years did AAS cost this guy on top of most likely poor genes he was dealt in terms of cardiovascular health?
We will never know.
Op was a pro soccer player.
The dosages used, patterns of use, training stimuli from that differs substantially relative to modern day bodybuilders, strongmen, powerlifters etc.
Ben Johnson apparently used like 15mg of stanozolol/day intermittently with perhaps a shot of XYZ here and there.
He’s still alive
Rich Piana isn’t
One should be getting echocardiograms every 2 years or so if they’re actively using. Granted for some even the relevation of cardiomyopathy won’t deter further use. Dallas McCarver apparently knew he had substantial LVH.
I think one could argue that the long term health impact to women from AAS use is far less than it is for men for the average AAS users in each group.
The cosmetic side effects are much worse for women though. They might get facial hair, a deep voice, MPB, a big clit, but they probably won’t get heart, liver or kidney failure from the dosages they are using.
I think the devil is in the dose here tbh. For reasons you pointed out in your post, most women stay on the really low side of AAS doses and can do this for years. Men tend to push those doses as high as they can handle… even in the TRT realm, guys will push their dose as high as their docs allow them to. While sides for men are much lower at high doses than women, I think the long-term health impact is quite literally dictated by the dose.
I guess that is what I was getting at. The average dose used by women for performance enhancement is probably less than an average TRT dose for men.
Women have to worry about becoming manly mostly (if that is something they don’t want), men have to worry about destroying their heart or organs.
As you mentioned above, we are starting to get information on the cardiovascular health effects of FTM hormone therapy. I would agree cumulative dose seems to be the important parameter for both biological males and females.
Related and good read.
Finally two additional papers which are fascinating and something to keep in mind especially if you exercise with high intensity and throw AAS in the mix (@roadie FYI).
I tried adding these to another thread but they got deleted. Evidently someone didn’t take kindly to me polluting the thread with some useful considerations :-). I’ll leave them unmentioned.
I believe the main difference is the cardiovascular health in general.
I do agree with @Robroy a lot. Most deaths we see nowdays are because steroids were taken for too long by people who weight 300lbs, push 7000kcal a day and they think that walking a treadmill is cardio.
Now when we look at mass monsters in NFL its a whole different thing, and dont say people dont take as much there. Yes they do. The minute they lose the first championship but they did put in 100% work, they up the doses.
I cant say for sure, its just an urban legend but “a guy” who was on the “inside” of the sport once told me that 16yr old chinese swimmer girls or some of the top gymnasts take so much shit, it would put bodybuilders to shame. Not saying its true, dont even care, just want to remind you that people in sports are driven and the second they dont get the first place after all the excrutiating work they put in, they will up the fuck out of the dose as much as humanly possible.
Dont give me that Lee Priest bullshit with “i never needed more than 500mgs of test” because he never won Olympia. Sure as fuck he would have tought to up it to 750mgs just once, after not winning AGAIN and AGAIN. He did up everything and still didnt win. Then went to saying “ah i never took more than 500mgs” because that would just make him look like a loser who took everything like everyone else and still didnt win.
Anyways, there are mass monsters in different sports that have cardio health. Heavyweight Kickboxers like Overeem or Lebaner have been on juice for decades, still going at it. Most pro wrestlers - Lesnar, everyones superstar - The Rock.
The Rock didnt even start getting big before 35. He is old as shit and getting bigger. He is also known for doing hours of cardio.
The wrestlers that did die, usually also did the whole lifestyle thing of prescription pain meds and party drugs but the reason why guys like Undertaker, Hogan, Kane and all the giants are still ok, is probably because along with drugs, the show of wrestling is a huge cardio work and not the low intensity one.
Definitely, if prone to heart problems, AAS will speed it up. Definitely there are also some hickups. But the reason why the bodybuilders die more than other athletes is NOT because of the dose. Any person in sports who takes shit, is pushing the doses unless he is the number one already. Dont tell me they do the hot-cold contrast shit and the fcking thing with jars on the back that leaves black spots, but heeey - never over 15mgs of winstrol? Yea, sure. Dream on.
The difference is in the lifestyle. Bodybuilders and powerlifters are the only athletes who consider walking a cardio and actually sweat doing it. Even strongman being twice the size and eating so much shit dont drop dead because even in their sport they have to run a time or two, and all that pulling and carrying is a serious HIT.
Trully, from everything i have observed in last 15 years, the largest difference in heart health and types of athletes and their lifestyles is the amount of high intensity cardio the athlete does.
Pro strongman has lots of guys that have died. The first and second place finishers of the 1990 WSM (JPS, and OD Wilson) both died of heart failure in 1991. BTW, OD should have won, but the contest was rigged for JPS.
There are a lot of guys that just died very early in the sport. Grizzly Brown, Johnny Perry, Jesse Marunde, Mike Jenkins to name a few others. I believe all of these guys were high level at one point (like qualifying for the WSM finals).
I do agree though that overall size is really a big factor to consider. Another is lifestyle outside of the AAS and being big. Genetics matters.
AAS is like adding a risk factor IMO. It may or may not do you significant harm. You can do things to lower that risk. Things like exercise, diet, living clean, using lower dosages, but you still did add a risk factor.
There are lots of guys same age dead of same problem who never used AAS also. The ones that died in sport may easily be the same ones who died without the AAS. They just happened to use AAS. Thats the problem with this. Simmilar with the Cov. In my country most people who died of Cov were 85+ years old with chronic disseases and in hospital, but they were added to the death toll of Covid. There was actually a 100 year old person with diabetes and cancer who died in a hospital…“because of Covid”.
Sooner or later every person who has eaten cucumbers gets a flu. We shouldnt say that cucumbers is a risk factor for the flu. You just got the flu and happened to be eating a cucumber in a last month.
I do agree with calling it “adding a risk factor” and i like the way you explained this one. I can totally get behind this idea.
why though. whats the purpose of taking deca when on trt. i dont get it.
My sister grew a beard and decided to stop.
@enackers
I put Deca for TRT in the title as I’d seen it provided by clinics and often talked about here and on Excelmale so really was hoping to get just the question you asked answered.
Most of the posts go on about adding it for joint care (which seems to be a short term benefit at most?) and for exercise rather than actually replacing something that’s declined due to age or illness (which the test should be doing?)
Neither of those reasons is bad to me, especially if done under care of a clinic. However I too am not sure I get the TRT side of it, in my original post I state “I’m not on TRT” because I’m not, I’m on a steroid cycle where I cruise on test and add other drugs for“fun”…
I asked as I wanted more info, not to critique others who have done it. The conversation wandered more into trenville, which means of course I’m now thinking about doing that…
As I’m not a med pro I would like to say, “don’t try any of this at home folks”.