T Nation

Debating If I'm Ready

Hi guys,
I’ve been competing in powerlifting for four years and lifting weights for six, and I am debating whether or not I am ready for a cycle.

The reason being, I am young (21), but farily advanced. I have squatted 480 raw at USAPL depth at 198 and done some decent raw BP (325 and 405 single ply) as well as 530 raw DL. As far as diet goes, I stick to a 40/30/30 (p/c/f) split for the most part and ~3100 seems to be sufficient for maintenance. I’m guessing ~4200 would be good on gear.

I am looking into doing strongman, as I feel like it will be better suited for my body type (I’m 5’11 and not really built for PL). Also, I seem to have a problem getting my weight above 205 without it being straight fat (I can get my weight up past that, it isn’t pretty though) and for stongman I would like to compete in the 230 class.

I’ve read most of the newbie thread and many of Cy’s articles (especially the ones pointed out) and was looking at doing a cycle of short length (2-3 weeks) because from my understanding this will keep side effects very minimal, which is important to me since I would like to live a long healthy life. I also am not looking to get up to 230 fast, I would be happy at a solid 220 9 months from now.

I feel like for my first cycle, copying Furious George’s sample would be acceptable.
INJ ONLY (3on, 4off, 3on, 4off, 3on, 8off)
W 1-3 Test Prop 75mg/d and NPP 50mg/d
W 4-7 off
W 8-10 Test Prop 75mg/d and NPP 50mg/d
W 11-14 off
W 15-17 Test Prop 75mg/d and NPP 50mg/d
W 18-25 off

From my understanding, anti-estrogens aren’t included because the dosage is low and the cycle is short. Or did I miss something and need to look into getting clomid? I’m guessing in weeks 18-25 I need clomid?

I know I am young, but I am more experienced than most my age and that is also why I am asking for your opinions and thoughts.

Thank you for your time.

IMO you’re still young. Half because you’re 21 half because you’ve only trained six years. Now having said that if you choose to proceed then so be it.
You’ve got respectable numbers for your age and weight though.

I’m almost more interested in your decision to abandon PL for SM? As a PLer myself I hate to lose a brother.
As for if you did proceed. I’m not advising against Prop but given your goals you could consider alternatives. A lot depends on how truly far you seek to go in the sport, whether it be PL or SM.

Finally, read the three sticky thread atop this forum a few more times. I don’t like the cycle you proposed. Once you read the sticky’s hopefully you will gain a deeper sense of why. Your cycle should compliment your training goals. Be sure you know what those are

Yes you are a “lil” young but it all depends and what are your goals are and what potentiel you think you have… i look at it this way, most top PL or top BB didn’t wait until they had a lot of years of training to start AAS and if they had they wouldn’t have been where they are today

regarding your cycle: what sapasion said

INJ ONLY (3on, 4off, 3on, 4off, 3on, 8off)
W 1-3 Nandrolone, 500 mg per week along with 70 mg per day of stanozolol
W 4-7 off
W 8-10 Nandrolone, 500 mg per week along with 70 mg per day of stanozolol
W 11-14 off
W 15-17 Nandrolone, 500 mg per week along with 70 mg per day of stanozolol
W 18-25 off

I could take this with heavy doses of Milk thistle as well, since winni is associated with liver damage, although most kids my age don’t have much of a liver anyway.

after re-reading “steroids for dummies” I feel like this will be a better solution as far as minimizing risks is concerned, and that is a primary concern. I am worried that deca isn’t the best for my goals (muscle), although it sounds like a fairly safe option that keeps popping up in stacks. I am open to alternative suggestions.

In a post Bill Roberts made, for short cycles you need close to 1000 mg/week for optimal results, so I upped the dosage. I am not sure if this is smart for a first cycle or not.

As far as leaving PL goes, I feel like strongman will take advantage of my natural speed and athleticism, as well as my (relative) height. I’m the kind of person that enjoys winning (anything and everything).

I don’t know how much potential I have, but I know that winning and being competitive is the most fun I can have and I want to enjoy this as long as I can, because being an engineering major, when I graduate I won’t have as much time for stuff like this.

Let me know what you think, and again, thanks for your time.

The second option won’t work nearly as well - the Nandrolone is a longer ester. This means that even in your “off-time” you’re still going to have a fair amount of androgens in your system still - a bit counter intuitive to the whole process of the short on and off cycles.

Not to mention that Nandrolone by itself is not nearly as effective as many are led to believe.

I agree that you are a little young to begin AAS use. 6 years training is not a long time to be training and I am willing to bet that you are still making gains. Ride those natural gains out for a couple more years.

Also I would suggest that you use a more conventional cycle when you do finally start. You state that you wanted to do a series of short cycles to avoid potential side effects. If proper precautions are taken you can run a 10-12 week cycle with minimal to no sides. But like I said I would hold off on that. It will also give you some more time to research it.

On a side note, why do you choose to do strongman instead of PL?

Well, thats 3 out of 3 no’s so I should probably wait a couple of years.

Thanks for your help guys.

I’m sorry but I totally disagree. How is 6 years not a good amount of time in the gym? Is someone supposed to train 10, 15, 20 years before taking anabolics??
If you know how to train, and you know how to eat (which I assume the OP does after 6 years not to mention that he looks really good for a natural bodybuilder at his age) then I see no reason why someone can not make the decision to use anabolics.
As for what to use I think your dose of prop is too high, I have had good results with 100 mgs mon, wed and fri. Back it off to 75 eod with the deca at around 400-500 a week.

You can get gyno from 75mgs of prop ed and you also can with 75mgs eod so I would have some arimidex on hand in case your nipples start itching. If your anabolics are real and correctly dosed this cycle should push your BW up 10-20 pounds and your strength should sky rocket. I would do this for 8-10 weeks then follow with a post cycle regiment. Then assess where you stand and, depending on your goals, take it from there.
Also, I think the winstrol should be dropped. You do not need it, the other two drugs are sufficient.

Did you just suggest he takes 225mg/wk of test stacked with 400-500mg of deca?

Please explain your thoughts process behind this…?

bmc

OP–I would say you are a bit young, but because you are 21, and not because of training age. I have a buddy in almost exactly the same spot as you (he’s 20 though). I told him the same thing. I’d really rather you wait until say 24 or thereabouts.

Everyone’s responses have been pretty much along the same lines as mine, except that I think 6 years of straight solid, obsessive effort constitutes “paying your dues” with sweat and blood, so to speak.

I’ve put in just under 7 at this point, and ya’ll helped me. I didn’t spend any of that time dicking around with “mirror training” or “training off and on”. Pretty much all of it’s been borderline obsessive :). But I gotta say that, to me, 6 years of SOLID, HARD effort and thought mean your dues have been paid. If you did it the right way, you’ve learned a lot about what works for you, you’ve read a lot and educated yourself, and you’ve put on an appreciable amount of muscle.

joeblow, that cycle sounds like bad advice to me.

Yeah dont listen to joeblow’s cycle. Dont know where he came up with any of that cycle

As for the OP, I think you are physically ready. Age wise may be a little young but in my opinion the age limit is put on there not all because of the risks of doing AAS too young but also maturity level. And i feel from reading your post you have that.

I think you’ve done your time in the gym not sure why people are saying you need more than 6 hard years of training…?

And I enjoyed reading your post, it seems like you have a good head on your shoulders. You seem like you have a better understanding than most people thinking about crossing to the dark side so from me…Good luck to you in whatever decision you make.

bmc

According to joeblow, as long as you know how to train, you should take AAS. I’m considering calling troll with some stuff he’s posted but I’m still unsure.

IMO… the limits on when someone should start AAS use are as follows:

1/ Age - due to endocrine system maturity - if too young and un-developed (even at 21 this can be the case) the AAS use can or will cause big problems a short few years down the line. Really, and a couple of us here can attest to that i’m sure.

2/ Training age - You need to be of a decent maturity in training, that is, know how to eat well, and be able to do that, also knowing exactly how what foods and how much of them affects your body.
Of course know how training affects you. What evercises work, what splits, what rest, what reps give the best responses to your physique…

3/ Decent knowledge of all aspects of AAS use, how to construct a cycle that is decent and safe, and is capable of understanding the dangers and benefits of each drug and is generally an intelligent, learned person, that is capable of taking new information and applying it to his own.

I think once someone has these covered I would suggest the MINIMUM, and i mean MINIMUM age to begin use of Anabolic Steroids or Prohormones should be 21, i would recommend 25 personally.
I dont think a man is a man until around 25-27 years old. Not 21. Or 18 as it is in the UK!! I digress…

As for the training age… this is more complex and obviously more subjective. I would say that if the person has been training seriously (by seriously i mean something like: uses a log book or at least has a detailed grip of their daily sessions, understands diet and nutrition, IS VERY consistent and able to design own programs) for 3+ years and has been working out with free weights for maybe a total of 5-6 years with minimum breaks at least, i would personally think that person is ready enough.
That they can show they are real and serious, and this isnt a fad for a couple of years.

For the AAS knowledge, thay should have read up all detailed profiles and studied AAS and ancillaries use and abuse for a matter of years something like 2-3 at a minimum maybe - they should be capable, and show a decent base knowledge, be able to construct safe and effective cycles, know how to safe guard against various side effects and be 100% aware of the inherent risks that ARE involved.

I know i am no authority, but we see alot of these posts here and i think if we could make a “STICKY:” with the above guidelines either as they are or different but along the same lines, then we could direct all of these posts there when they ask “am i ready?”.
If they were, they would know that themselves, and by reading a decent sticky like the one above i think they should realise just that, how to know when they are ready.

This isnt a world-view guideline - but i think due to the collective morality we share on peoples ages and knowledge before AAS use, and we all sort of agree, i think a “STICKY:” with the safety guidelines to use when thinking of using these drugs.
We have a responsibility to newbies, as more educated and experienced users, aware of the problems and risks these drugs bring… I know we do this already, but i think this could help?

We will not tolerate anyone risking their long term health or happiness for a couple pounds of water here!

What do ya think?!

Joe

Mac_06. Alot of people wont want to hear what i have to say on this, but I dont care really. I feel if you have your form, and dieting down. Why not, right?

It seems your knowledge of AAS is very, very limited tho. Read up on this greatly. Understanding the complexities of AAS should take at the least six months. And to become knowledgeable another six.

IMO, i would research more. Start an archive now. Start saving useful studies, and interesting reads. And research the dangers of beginning at such a young age.

21 is fairly early. You still have your life ahead of you. Choose wisely.

For a cycle, i would keep it very light. and something relatively good for your body.

200mg Tes E/Tes C (either, or)

with
200mg Decca
200mg EQ a week

This would be a fairly anabolic stack with great joint support. The Tes is thrown in at a low dose to keep things stable. But keep it really low, because there is a point were it will effect collagen synthesis. Run it for about 12 weeks. Stoping the Decca and EQ a week before the Tes.

*Srry to hijack, but Joseph, great idea for a thread sir. As is your stand alone cycle thread.
*joeblow, that is to much gear for a beginner.
*Makavali, what joeblow says is a matter of opimion. Why would you call him a troll, because he speaks his mind? What the hell man? Honestly, have you had one quality post? Bashing people doesnt make you a respected member. No matter how hard you try.

[quote]Phyzeekk wrote:
*Srry to hijack, but Joseph, great idea for a thread sir. As is your stand alone cycle thread.
*joeblow, that is to much gear for a beginner.
*Makavali, what joeblow says is a matter of opimion. Why would you call him a troll, because he speaks his mind? What the hell man? Honestly, have you had one quality post? Bashing people doesnt make you a respected member. No matter how hard you try.[/quote]

I didn’t say he was a troll, I said I was unsure. Learn to read.

EDIT: As an after thought, I don’t really give a fuck whether or not you respect me. Bad advice begets smartass response. If I tell someone to do something that might damage them, please feel free to flame me.

I’m still unsure if this is something I want to do. I know some older guys that back in the day (they were close to my age) used gear and in their 50’s they are fine, have had kids, etc, so I might be able to without long term problems.

Regardless, I think I am going to purchase the steroid bible and use that to continue research, because I recognize that my understanding is limited.

I would like to continue to see people’s opinions though as well as possibly exposure to other resources.

Mate, if you do it right, a steroid cycle isn’t going to do much outside of getting you bigger. Don’t worry about sides, if you sort out a proper cycle, cycle support and PCT you’ll be fine.

Give it a couple of years, and I’m sure everyone knowledgeable here will be more than happy to help you out. You sound like you’ve got your head fixed on right so don’t feel intimidated here, just learn and learn and you’ll be sweet.