I’d also be happy to point out that this post - by re-establishing your belief that people are too stupid to govern themselves - still begs the question of how you can profess such a love for democratic government.[/quote]
The fact that I do not agree or even, to a certain extent, respect the choices of the majority doesn’t mean that I feel that there is a fundamental problem with them choosing their own destiny; I TRULY believe that people should get the government they deserve; if Americans continue to choose to follow the path they have been following in the past 5 years, it IS their prerogative. If they destroy America, it is their country to destroy. If I ever sounded like I questioned that, I must, here and now make it clear: it IS THEIR PREROGATIVE to make bad choices and suffer the consequences – including killing the spirit of the country that is (for better or worse), THEIR country.
I’d also be curious to know why, if you truly believed that the US was headed toward a brand of fascism, you aren’t planning on relocating to a different country. I say this, and I am dead serious - if I thought fascism was on the rise in any country that I was living, I would be looking for a way out early.[/quote]
I can change citizenship within a week and leave at any time. My family ties with Portugal allow me to do so. I even have a lot of political incentive to do so: Portugal’s prime-minister is a longtime friend of mine (he’s a Social-Democrat and an Environmentalist, in case you’re wondering, and I brokered his deal with a Bay Area company to put one of the biggest and most advanced solar panel arrays on the planet in my family’s home town in Southeast Portugal). But I digress; the thing is: I will rather die fighting for keeping America a true Democracy than to jump ship. And I say this from the bottom of my heart and with full conviction.
I’m not surprised to see that you are not willing to do the same…
I would also be very hesitant to post on public internet boards about how awful the new Fascist regime was for fear that I would be singled out before I could escape to a Western European country.[/quote]
I can only add this: I’m glad not everybody thinks that way, or nobody would have been part of the resistance movement in Europe during WWII, and nobody would have taken Portugal or Spain back from their dictators.
By the way, the only reason my ancestors left Portugal was to protect their families; fortunately, I am in a position that if it comes to that, I can send my family to Portugal but stay myself; unfortunately, they were unable to do so (they could not send their families here without being here themselves).
I also stand behind my feeling that anyone who insults the so-called ‘common man’ as much as you do, coupled with your suggestion that the American ‘common man’ is complicit in endorsing totalitarianism, cannot possibly be a democrat of any stripe.[/quote]
That means that you are either extremely stupid – and cannot grasp the concept I’ve mentioned above, i.e., that the fact that I do believe most Americans are insanely stupid doesn’t mean I don’t think they should choose their destiny, even if it is fascism – or you simply are spinning it to make your case against me. Which one is it?
I think that your democratic credentials are a complete sham and you should at least admit that you have no interest in mindless cattle being entitled to self-government. [/quote]
Mindless cattle IS entitled to self-government. I firmly believe so. It is their fundamental right. I have no intention or inclination than to force them to behave in their best interest. I’m not the one who likes playing God.
The American people tolerate totalitarianism about as much as a Bay Area dandy would tolerate having to share a seat on the bus with a dirty Midwestern pipefitter.[/quote]
The American people have idly stood by while their rights and liberties have been slowly stripped away from them. Maybe the American people is simply too stupid to realize that – and much like little children they simply do like being told what to think rather than making up their own mind.
Want proof? Look at the most popular “news” programs; that are essentially about telling people what to think, rather than giving them the facts so they can make up their own minds. And the American people eats it all up like a kid in a candy store.
Oh, and by the way ? I share seats on busses and trains with many working people with BO problems every day. So do many of my liberal friends. San Francisco’s Muni system is also BO bonanza, in case you want to come by and try it. It is the conservatives around here that continuously try to block any attempt of diverting Sales Tax to funding more and better public transit, and refer to it as “cattle cars”.
Moreover, while Bush has no doubt made tactical errors in the GWOT and in many ways been too soft and indecisive, why would anyone with any sense actually think a member of the Left would have gotten OBL any faster? [/quote]
It would surely have tried harder – Bush is barely trying and, at every step of the way, prioritized millions of other things first. It is CLEARLY pretty low in his list of priorities, and everyone should be asking him and themselves why.
What it would take is a more ruthless approach to nail him - does anyone think the Left, with its smarmy apologism for OBL’s existence and ideology in the first place and its distaste for all things messy, dangerous, or military, could have been a tougher sheriff than Bush?[/quote]
“The Left” is a big tent – I, for one, make no apologies for Bin Laden nor his ideology. If anything I have been previously attacked – left AND right – for advocating solutions that were too aggressive.
I would suggest no. The Left hates hard choices in foreign policy and war - they only want tidy solutions that are cost-free where all sensitivities are appreciated and no one gets hurt.[/quote]
Again, “the Left” is a big tent – and are you really saying it is possible to actually do worse than this administration has done in the past 6 years? Not going into Iraq would have been 100x times better than going like we did. In all honesty, I’d very much like to invade ALL of the Arab and Persian countries and clean house. Clearly, we do not have such capability, so it is simply smarter to let them all kill each other.
Again, Democracy is about letting people make their own choices, even if it means self-destruction.
I’d pull out of Iraq tomorrow, even if it means looking bad. It’s not like America’s image can get any worse at this point. Let them all kill each other. While they are at it, they won’t be killing Americans.
What happens when Lefties are presented not with a choice between something good and something bad, but between something bad and something worse? Dunno - the American people aren’t willing to gamble to let such mushy-headed theorists (“let’s tolerate them into submission!!”) get behind the wheel of foreign policy that includes issues of making war and taking out enemies. In that sense, this directly refutes your thesis of ‘stupid people’ - keeping the Left away from the heavy machinery of making decisions on war is quite wise on behalf of America.[/quote]
WISE? Do you really think there’s anything WISE about this administration’s foreign policy?
As I said above: anything the Democrats could have done could not be have worse than what Bush did. Seriously. You’d have to try REALLY hard to screw up more than Bush did.
And just in case you decide to continue to pretend that all the Left thinks the same about foreign affairs, and/or I haven’t been clear enough before: I truly believe that, with regards to the Middle East, there are only two options: leaving them alone – truly alone, including, but not limited to, completely eliminating any dependency on their goods, oil included – and letting them all kill each other, or go in guns blazing and nuke the heck out of them. There’s no middle ground here, no compromise, no diplomacy, nothing; you cannot negotiate with people that blindly follow dogma.
Religious Fundamentalism – ALL religious fundamentalism – is a cancer, and the only way to get rid of cancer is to either take it out of your body or kill it in place. You can’t change cancerous cells into “healthy” ones, and certainly you cannot simply sit and wait for it to go away while it’s still in your body.
The problem is that Bush is not part of the solution – he is part of the problem.