T Nation

Dear Biotest

This is actually a corollary to my last post, “What Happened To.” That thread was hijacked (by me, actually), and this is the continuation.

The topic at hand was whether or not T-People would be willing to pay for a high-end EFA supplement, and the general sentiment, as stateed by Atomic Dog and at least one member, was that most guys would not buy it. Here is one rebuttal:

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
I don’t know, guys…

I’d love a potent EFA too…but just a little reality check…

  1. Grow! went down to $23.00…and you STILL had hacks complaining that they could get their big bag of “Tub-O-Whey” for .39 cents per serving while Grow! was .40!..so they went with their “Tub-O-Whey” (not exact numbers…but you get the point…)

2)I can hear it now…“DAMN…I can get a bottle uh fish caps at Costco for blah, blah, blah…” (even though they have to take 30 caps a day with poor bioavailability, leading to “fish burps” all day and questionable benefits…)

Oh well…that’s Life…!

Mufasa[/quote]

While this a perfectly reasonable expectation, I have a theory that is a bit different. Bear with me.

I started buying Biotest supplements in the Ribose-C, Power Drive, MD6, TRIBEX, and Grow! days. At that time, Grow! cost $47 for a three pound bottle (although the Biotest store offered a Buy 2, Get 1 free promotion). Even at that price, people bought it. A lot of it. Would it be cheaper to buy a five pound bucket-o-whey? Hell yes. Later on, Surge was developed, and it carried a price tag of $50 for ten servings! Who pays $5 for a protein drink? A lot of people, and it has apparently been a Biotest bestseller since creation. Would it be cheaper to order ten pound bags of dextrose and WPI? Absolutely, but T-Maggers wanted something better.

In the past few weeks, there has been some discussion on multiple vitamins. Now, I have mentioned the EFA supplement that you guys had in the works, and a few people have expressed interest in that. Here is my hypothesis:

Biotest customers are willing to pay top-dollar for top-quality nutrition. Grow!, Low- Carb Grow!, and Surge have all done remarkably well, even when they were considerably more expensive than other products in their genre. Why? Simply because your readers recognize the superiority, and they are willing to pay for that. However, when ergogenic aids are introduced, you guys know there is a seasonal and limited market for them. I need fats, carbs, and protein every day out of the year. I cannot say the same for lipolytic aids, prohormones, neurotransmitter formulas, or whatever. Bottom line: I think that Biotest will most always succeed with products incorporating nutrients that every athlete needs, everyday: proteins, fats, carbs, and vitamins/minerals.

Thus, I want to suggest that Biotest consider marketing:

  1. The originally conceived EFA supplement and
  2. A quality multiple vitamin/mineral–perhaps a three-per-day formula (with three different pills) to minimize absorption inhibitions.

These being foundation nutrients, I really, really think that they would succeed. What does everyone else think?

~Terumo

I agree 100%

Terumo:

That is simply an outstanding post, with well thought out arguments…

(Much better than my cynacism!)

I guess we’ll have to see what Tim, TC and the Gang think when they crunch the numbers…

Again…great post!

Mufasa

Would be great.

I agree, a multi and an EFA capsule would be the icing on the Biotest cake. All those in favor. You pay for quality and Biotest = quality thus far.

Don’t get me wrong please, I love Biotest products and currently use Maximum Strength HOT-ROX, Alpha Male, Methoxy-7, Surge and Power Drive and looking forward to Low-Carb Grow! to become available.

However, what can Biotest do better then what is already available? For example Pharmaceutical grade fish oil http://www.zonelabsinc.com/servlet/coresysconfig.ZoneLabsComController and let’s say New Chapter multi http://www.iherb.com/everyman.html or http://www.drweilvitaminadvisor.com/advisor/default.asp?catid=16093&aid=336969&aparam=drweilrosnavnov04VA

Biotest doesn’t need to worry about creating any new suplements, I would be happy if they could get Grow! and Surge back in stock.

I’m all for an EFA and multivitamin.

[quote]yustas wrote:
However, what can Biotest do better then what is already available? For example Pharmaceutical grade fish oil…[/quote]

While high quality fish oil is a great source of EFA, it could be improved. I highly recommend reading Udo Erasmus’s Fats That Heal, Fats That Kill. I know the title needs work, but it is a great book, and you’ll get even more out of it if you have a bit of chemistry knowledge. I know Udo makes an oil blend, but I think it is a bit tuned-down since he tries to make it somewhat palatable.

[quote]yustas wrote:
…New Chapter multi…[/quote]

This may be a good multi, but it doesn’t solve the problem of cross-inhibition among different nutrients.

Granted, there may several great EFA and vitamin manufacturers out there, but the main reason why I think that Biotest should consider producing these supplements is threefold:

  1. I trust Biotest, in terms of quality and research, more than any other supplement company.

  2. Biotest has began creating a fairly large gamut of supplements, at least compared to the old days. I think it would be great if readers could get all of the supplements they need from Biotest. Sure, if you want creatine, individual amino acids, joint formulas, or vitamin C, go somewhere else. I would just like to be able to order all of my mandatory supplements from Biotest.

  3. I’d like to be able to direct my friends to this site and this site alone when they ask me about starting a supplement program. I would no longer have to say, “Go to Biotest to buy this, then go to GNC for this, then go to Sam’s Club for this…”

How great would this be for business if Biotest had everything we actually needed?

~Terumo

[quote]Terumo wrote:
…I think it would be great if readers could get all of the supplements they need from Biotest…[/quote]

I agree 100%. Biotest’s credibility is a big factor as well as a convenience of getting it all from one place. I’m all for it.

Very well said, and I completely agree.

I’d love to see an EFA and multi! Knowing Biotest’s determination for top quality, these products would be killer!

I really like the idea of a multi that solves the competitive abosorbency issues.

I would buy it. I have a lot of faith in Biotest, they don’t do stuff half-assed, everything they make is a mark or two above everything else out there.

[quote]yustas wrote:
Don’t get me wrong please, I love Biotest products and currently use Maximum Strength HOT-ROX, Alpha Male, Methoxy-7, Surge and Power Drive and looking forward to Low-Carb Grow! to become available.

However, what can Biotest do better then what is already available? For example Pharmaceutical grade fish oil http://www.zonelabsinc.com/servlet/coresysconfig.ZoneLabsComController and let’s say New Chapter multi http://www.iherb.com/everyman.html or http://www.drweilvitaminadvisor.com/advisor/default.asp?catid=16093&aid=336969&aparam=drweilrosnavnov04VA
[/quote]

You’re damn right we could.

You know what the problem with vitamins is? There are several that you shouldn’t combine. Certain minerals interfere with absorption of other minerals.

Companies realize that the average buyer doesn’t like taking several pills so they bite the bullet and combine things that shouldn’t be combined into one pill.

However, bodybuilders in general, particularly Biotest people, don’t mind taking pills. As such, the preliminary formula we came up with involves a morning vitamin, a post-workout anti-oxidant, and a nighttime mineral formulation.

Besides, there isn’t a single formulation aimed at strength athletes. Ours would be.

As far as our fish oil, we were able to achieve a concentration much higher in the desirable fatty acids than Barry Sears’ version.

I currently use Udo’s and AST’s multi, I would abolutely switch to Biotest.

[quote]Atomic Dog wrote:
However, bodybuilders in general, particularly Biotest people, don’t mind taking pills. As such, the preliminary formula we came up with involves a morning vitamin, a post-workout anti-oxidant, and a nighttime mineral formulation.

Besides, there isn’t a single formulation aimed at strength athletes. Ours would be.

As far as our fish oil, we were able to achieve a concentration much higher in the desirable fatty acids than Barry Sears’ version.
[/quote]

Gimme! Seriously, the demand is here… why not put a poll in the war-room, and see if people would pay what you’d have to charge. Part of the problem with how you guys did the Grow! Bars is that you asked how much someone would pay. So people respond with the lowest figure they can think of. You’d probably get a more accurate response by just saying what your bottom price is and asking if people would pay.

Please?

Come on, more forumites lend your support to the production of high quality supplements!

Yeah bro I am with you… the one post from TC is enough to convince me… Biotest has never steered me wrong before and I am currently one of the many awaiting my case of MAG-10 and some ZMA to arive. I will deffinantly be trying Surge when they restock it and then if they put out the 3ed pill he talked about that will be on my list as well.
Lets hear some more support for more new products from the most trust worthy company we know.
DA

I don’t know that I’d want a whole EFA supp, but I would love a high-quality Omega-3 supp.

And it goes without saying that I would be on-board for a good multi-vitamin (hopefully in male and female versions, so I could buy one for my fiancee as well).

If Biotest were to come out with a multi and/or EFA, I’d be first on line.

I vote Yes!

Prefererably an EFA with EPA/DHA, GLA, and high quality CLA (the correst isomer, of course).