T Nation

Dealing with High E2

25y old male, 5’11 tall, 195lbs
long story short, done my first cycle last year 03/2018 - 06/2018 which was Tren A 125mg EOD, Test P 75mg EOD, Winstrol 50mg ED, Adex/Letro, Caber. Can’t recall doses on the AIs or DA.
Anyway i must’ve done everything wrong as i was 100 times more clueless than i am now although i recovered without any issues whatsoever. PCT was pretty much non existant as i dropped everything on the day of my last shot…after about a week i was feeling much better, after 2 weeks i felt just amazing like i would get 10+ spontaneous erections a day.
Gear was legit as i’ve had massive tren coughs (almost passed out), night sweats etc.
Gained 20 lbs and got leaner.
My 2nd and last cycle 15/08/2018 - 15/11/2018 was Tren E 400mg E4D, Test E 150mg E4D, Winstrol 50mg ED, IGF-1 LR3 60mcg ED, caber .5 E3D, adex 1mg EOD, 4 weeks in i added 500iu HCG E4D.
About 7-10 days after my last shot i’ve started PCT nolva 20mg ed, HCG 500iu E2D, .5 caber E3D, some adex here and there… all this for 5 weeks after which i’ve decided to do a blood test as i have not felt recovered (no morning wood/sex drive).

01/02/2019
TT - 201 ng/dl 249-836
fT - 3.86 ng/dl 5.76-17.88
SHBG - 309 µg/dL 174 - 514
E2 - 12 pg/ml 11-43
LH - 0.74 IU/L
FSH - 0.71 IU/L
Prolactin - 2.8 mU/L 86-324
DHEA-S - 120.4 µg/dL 160-450

Started being more consistent with my diet and increased my saturated fat and red meat intake by alot.
Started clomid 50/50/25/12.5/12.5. started supplementing with EVL Test, ZMA, D3.

07/03/2019
TT - 661 ng/dl 249-836
fT - 14.53 ng/dl 5.76-17.88
SHBG - 339 µg/dL 174 - 514
E2 - 34 pg/ml 11-43
LH - 20.1 IU/L
FSH - 8.73 IU/L
Prolactin - 9.7 mU/L 86-324
DHEA-S - 140.3 µg/dL 160-450

Dropped clomid, added .5 adex EOD in attempt to lower E2.
27/03/2019
TT - 778 ng/dl 249-836
fT - 17.2 ng/dl 5.76-17.88
SHBG - 384 µg/dL 174 - 514
E2 - 48.7 pg/ml 11-43
LH - 7.2 IU/L
FSH - 3 IU/L
Prolactin - 88 mU/L 86-324
DHEA-S - 171.7 µg/dL 160-450

E2 came back even higher instead. Decided to give Aromasin a try so i ordered 50x 20mg tabs (UGL) and ran it 25mg ED
17/04/2019
TT - 862 ng/dl 249-836
fT - 18.28 ng/dl 5.76-17.88
SHBG - 405 µg/dL 174 - 514
E2 - 54 pg/ml 11-43
LH - 6.4 IU/L
FSH - 3.8 IU/L
Prolactin - 226 mU/L 86-324
DHEA-S - 214.4 µg/dL 160-450
TSH - 1.43 mIU/L 0.27 - 4.2
fT4 - 1.47 ng/dl 0.93 - 1.71

dropped the Aromasin as it was probably fake. No sides whatsoever and E2 went higher again.
Ordered some new Aromasin from Pfizer to give that a try, should arrive by Tue…will do another test after 10 days on 12.5mg ED. also been trying to find ways to improve estrogen metabolism as much as i can.

Would very much appreciate any thoughts from the community. Thank you

The first thing I’ll say is that you didn’t mention anything about experiencing any actual side effects from you E being at any of the measured levels. Absent any actual side effects I would suggest not to involve an AI.
Alternatively and since it seems like you’re intent is to use the AI prophylactically have you considered substituting a SERM like Nolva in place of the AI…that way you remove the possible effects of elevated E2 without the risk of crashing. An E2 of 54 isn’t the end of the world if you’re not growing tits.

Bro you need to take a step back from the drugs. Your bill nye science experiments aren’t working and personally I think your cycles were ridiculous.

My best advice is take you situation to a trained medical doctor who has experience in this area.

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Sorry for not mentioning, am quite sensitive to gyno
Sensitive nips/flared 1-2 weeks after dropping Clomid.
Thought about Nolva also but i fear it might spike LH and create more unwanted aromatization which makes me think i’d have to stay on it either permanently or for a very long time.
Plan was to lower E2 using an AI hoping it will stay in the somewhat lower range after dropping the AI and not having to take anything again.

Sure let’s ignore my comment because it doesn’t cater to your needs of continuing to use drugs in ignorant bliss.

You are running drugs that have no business in a pct and can’t figure out why your not recovering properly.

Hmm last smorgish board of drugs I thru together didn’t work let me try this one.

Ya let’s try another AI.

Bro the fact you don’t understand how nolva works yet you are using a gazillion different drugs tells me everything I need to know about your situation.

Is that how that works?

You aren’t giving your body enough time to settled down; as @zeek1414 is saying you’re throwing more drugs, different drugs, and trying to fight the same fire by pissing all over yourself.

Stop and do a proper Nolva based PCT. Who cares if it causes added aromatization, the Nolva will do what Nolva does and that’s PREVENT GYNO which is what you’re concerned with right?

40/40/20/20 and done…
Wait a few weeks after that and test bloods; bet you’ll be good.

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I’m not so certain running another pct is gonna do much for his E2 levels. His test recovered fine aswell as his lh/fsh so the nuts are working.

Im more stuck on the fact he had no idea what he’s doing but is running advanced compounds at high doses and as you said @yubs throwing drug after drug.

Bingo. Look at the dates. Your not even giving yourself time for your body to get back to natural homeostasis.

I think the best thing to do is stop taking shit wait 6 months and get blood I’m willing to bet everything will be fine then.

People don’t want to hear that tho. People need instant gratification. An immediate solution to a problem. Unfortunately that’s not how your body and your endocrine system work.

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This is so fucking irresponsible, your cycles are frankly ludicrous. You have no place screwing with those compounds in your first two cycles. People like you are the reason AAS get a bad name.

Take a step back and let your body recover of it’s own accord, your running over 800ng TT and everything else if more or less normal too after a massive tren cycle, what more can you ask for?

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Makes complete sense, it’s exactly what i’m going to do…gyno is less than pea size, not visibly noticeable anyway.
Thanks for the honest and helpful advice @zeek1414

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Unless you’re at <10% bf then you have no business doing things the way you’ve done them. Two tren cycles, winstrol, IGF-1, and you’re 195lbs? You better be fucking shredded for this to be worth it my man.

You’re E/T ratio is pretty in line with what it should be

How often do you drink alcohol, how’s diet, stress, lifestyle etc? Ingestion of high amts of processed foods/ certain foods high in phytoestrogens can off-put hormonal balance.

Sex hormone clearance by the liver (inactivation and clearance of oestrogen) plays a large part in why some dudes have these issues. When estrogen can’t be inactivated and cleared due to impaired hepatic function it may be re-absorbed by the body, thus creating issues. Throwing drugs such as aromatase inhibitors at this problem is stupid, as you aren’t treating the root cause.

What’s you’re BF%, excess BF% is associated with excess adipose tissue (a widely recognised endocrine organ) that contains aromatase and produces various other hormones (leptin for one, however over time with too much leptin you’ll develop leptin resistance) and more.

IGF 1, Tren, winny… at what age do you expect to develop cardiovascular disease?

I don’t drink that often, maybe 4-5 times a year.
Lifestyle/stress are in check.

Now this i definetly was ignoring.
I’m at 7-8% bf most of the time.
Macros are 291P 437C 108F
Eggs,Chicken Breast, Steak,Salmon,White Rice,Sweet Potatoes,Peanut Butter,Avocados,Butter is all i’ve been eating at home.
That being said, i’ve been having Mc’donalds for post-workout everytime for the last 3 months and i’m talking a minimum of 1500kcal worth of sandwiches and often times up to 4000+ in one sitting which i would think was surely not easy on my liver. I guess the portion size of all my other meals is too big also…mostly have chicken breast with white rice and some butter on the side multiple times a day but like anywhere between 250-500g chicken breast and 200-300g rice…yeah. Sometimes i’d go even more overboard like eating out all day for days straight and gain like 10lb but once i stop i’d lose all of it in a matter of days.

Just a couple things from what i gathered.

  1. no more eating out
  2. have 5-7 smaller meals a day instead of 3
  3. maybe cut down on protein and/or fats…will see

Thanks @unreal24278 you’re awesome.

Woah, McDonald’s every day… And you’re maintaining 8% bf … That’s awesome. I wish I could eat fast food every day without any long term impact on my longevity. KFC has excellent crispy chicken here in Aus, but it’s SO bad for you… Just thinking about it gives me hunger pains…