Deadlifts vs Pull-ups

I don’t know. I can Deadlift 600lbs, but I can’t do ten strict pull ups with 45lb plate attached as far as I know.

[quote]deadgoat wrote:

[quote]Blaze_108 wrote:
I tend to deadlift last if I’m fully training back( BBB only hits one back exercise on a certain day), because if my lower back is already dead then I am limited on the weight I can do on BB rows, T bar rows, or DB rows.[/quote]
BBB?

Big Beyond Belief- a mass routine based on starting a week at higher reps and finishing at lower reps, you hit each bodypart with one exercise to failure, dropping some weight each set, each bodypart gets hit 3 times if you’re on the 6 day program. There’s a thread on it in this BB section.

Blaze_108

that sounds interesting, currently doing a hybrid of Max-OT for compound lifts and the usual 3 sets of 10 for isolation exercises. Reason I tinkered with it is because going heavy on isolation lifts puts way too much strain on my joints. How does this BBB compare toother mass routines like GVT?

[quote]PJS2010 wrote:
I always deadlift first, due to how much energy it takes. It doesn’t take much out of my pull up performance afterwards. and the 600lb deadlift is more impressive imo, I’ll definately reach the 10 strict pull ups before the deadlift.[/quote]

I can almost guarentee that it does. You just dont know it because you ALWAYS deadlift first. If you ONLY considered the effect deadlifting has on your grip its obvious to see how it will affect pullup numbers. And deadlifting affects much more than that (including energy levels and all that).

I see no need to deadlift first unless you are planning to be a competitvie deadlifter. It doesnt target the back nearly as well as other movements. Its good to do, but in a bodybuilding routine its best done at the end so a ton of weight doesnt need to be used for best stimulation.

If you want a big, wide, detailed back deadlifting the msot weight possible is not the fastest (most efficcient) route.

[quote]Shadowzz4 wrote:
However, this is very tough because I imagine there are far fewer people that can do 10 strict chins with a 45 on them than people that can deadlift 600… but I could be mistaken… [/quote]

10 pullups + 45lbs is easy if you arent fat.

Deadlifting 600lbs is a significant feat of strength.

This is comparing apples to oranges. One thing favors light people with high strength to weight ratios (lean people). The other favors people with more mass (there are lean deadlifters but adding excess weight in the form of fat wont be a detriment to overall deadlift numbers (it just fucks with your competition numbers because of the weight classes)

But honestly deadlifting and pullups are about as different as squats and calf raises. Yeah both those things “work the legs” but they have far different applications.

[quote]deadgoat wrote:
Hey guys just wanted to know from the forum which is rated higher for overall back development.
Which would you place 1st in your back workout (in terms of order of performing exercise)? Reason I ask is because deadlifts are very taxing, for this reason do you place them 1st or last?

And what would you guys find more impressive a 600lb deadlift or 10 strict pull ups with a 45lb plate between the legs? (I’m nowhere near either, to avoid confusion)[/quote]

If you look at what Deadlifts do for the back only, not counting any other areas, i still think it is the overall better back builder then pullups.

Now since deadlifts work so much more than just the back, it is a no brainer, it needs to go first in your routine. Deadlifts are for any type of person with almost any goals. They will only benefit you.

Standard Lifts > than all others. So deadlifts are more impressive than pullups. That doesnt mean you shouldnt do them. Especially if you want that V look.

Just for an example, I am not that strong, i can only do 4 pullups with a 45 pound weight strapped on me. I can only DL about 450 range. I dont consider either to be impressive but i dont see a scenario where i would ever tell anyone, yeah i can do 10 pullups with 45 pounds strapped to me. It is more impressive to me to tell someone i can pick up off the ground 450 pounds.

If you cant manage to fit them in because of exhaustion then split your back days. Lower-Middle/Upper-Traps. I do Deads/hams/traps on 1 day and Rows/pullups/biceps on another.

[quote]thogue wrote:
I think they are entirely different exercises and develop different muscles… someone who only deadlifts will have a very different back than someone who only does pullups

Since you said you don’t progress on the exercises you put later in the routine - you could consider putting the deadlift and other back work on separate days? Idk how the rest of your split is set up but would it make sense to do deadlifts on a leg day or pullups/rows with chest or something?

Otherwise you just have to decide which one you want to progress more on I suppose[/quote]

This makes sense.

[quote]deadgoat wrote:

I got to a 405 pull within 4 months of training for it, so thought getting the other 200 can be achieved within 18 months but I still cant do 10 strict bw pull ups. Just thought most people would agree. Only hit back once, but I hit it hard and heavy
3 sets of pull ups
3 sets of DB rows
3 sets of deadlifts
3 sets of hyperextensions[/quote]

I told you in another thread. Your arms are crazy long. Your upper arm is almost as long as the length of your collar bone. You are built to deadlift. Doing a pullup requires a huge range of motion for someone with long arms.

Not being able to do 10 pullup is pretty bad though. Get some straps so you can focus on the target muscles and make your lats and teres major stronger without worrying about grippng the bar. That will be a step in the right direction

[quote]mokaloka99 wrote:

[quote]deadgoat wrote:
Hey guys just wanted to know from the forum which is rated higher for overall back development.
Which would you place 1st in your back workout (in terms of order of performing exercise)? Reason I ask is because deadlifts are very taxing, for this reason do you place them 1st or last?

And what would you guys find more impressive a 600lb deadlift or 10 strict pull ups with a 45lb plate between the legs? (I’m nowhere near either, to avoid confusion)[/quote]

If you look at what Deadlifts do for the back only, not counting any other areas, i still think it is the overall better back builder then pullups.

Now since deadlifts work so much more than just the back, it is a no brainer, it needs to go first in your routine. Deadlifts are for any type of person with almost any goals. They will only benefit you.

Standard Lifts > than all others. So deadlifts are more impressive than pullups. That doesnt mean you shouldnt do them. Especially if you want that V look.

Just for an example, I am not that strong, i can only do 4 pullups with a 45 pound weight strapped on me. I can only DL about 450 range. I dont consider either to be impressive but i dont see a scenario where i would ever tell anyone, yeah i can do 10 pullups with 45 pounds strapped to me. It is more impressive to me to tell someone i can pick up off the ground 450 pounds.

If you cant manage to fit them in because of exhaustion then split your back days. Lower-Middle/Upper-Traps. I do Deads/hams/traps on 1 day and Rows/pullups/biceps on another.

[/quote]

Pics to back up these claims?

Definitely the DL is wayyy more impressive. I can do 10 dead hang pullups w/45 but can barely DL 405.

I have found that Dead Lifts gave me more overall back size ( I dead lifted often as a beginner because it’s the only compound lift that suits my build-I’m a lanky fucker) whereas pull ups more worked my lats, I think it would be prudent for most people to include both exercises in their routines, both are commonly shirked by many people, including me.

Since I started 5/3/1 I now work both these exercises weekly (though I have to be conservative with the dead lift due to my history of lower back injuries) I feel they both compliment each other well

The pull up is a good exercise to do after the dead lift as it decompresses the spine :wink:

[quote]deadgoat wrote:

[quote]Blaze_108 wrote:
I tend to deadlift last if I’m fully training back( BBB only hits one back exercise on a certain day), because if my lower back is already dead then I am limited on the weight I can do on BB rows, T bar rows, or DB rows.[/quote]
BBB?

[quote]TommyGunz32 wrote:
What is you main concern: Your deadlift number or overall back developement?

Most BB’s train the deadlift last

A lot of BB’s warm up with pull ups

IMO there are better exercises than either of these for overall back development but whatever works for you.

The 600lb dead is more impressive because its a standard lift.

There are too many variables with the pull ups[/quote]

Cant I have both? Going for the Dave Gulledge strength/physique ratio
What exercises could possibly trump deadlifts and pull ups?
Yeah I suppose a 5’6 guy weighing 150 would find pull ups easier than a 6’1 guy weighing 230, but strength is relative right?[/quote]

I don’t know who Dave Gulledge is

Yes you can be strong and have a great physique more often then not the two go together but simply getting stronger on the deadlift doesnt ensure your going to have a great back.

The deadlift is a great total body mass builder for the hamstrings, glutes, and lower back. Its decent for back thickness

Pull ups become increasingly hard to load and my gym only has bars that angle down as the grip widens I prefer a straight bar. I feel pulldowns better in my lats for some reason.

I prefer pulldowns(v grip, wide, reverse), rows(HS, bb, db, chest supported, cable) and pullovers for the majority of my back work.

I dont know what you mean by strength is relative

There is no right answer to this question. Everyone trains a bit differently figure out what works best for you.

If you have to do both in the same workout, I would start with deadlifts for safety reasons. I need fresh upper back musculature to deadlift safely.

I have done 11 chinups with a 45 pound plate. And 9 reps with 55. Not super strict, but still.

Doing that only requires being skinny. Deadlifting 600 requires being strong.

Strong>>>skinny.

H4M deadlifts 660 or so. He can probably do the chins as well, but we’ll all agree that his feats of strength are far more impressive than mine.

For reference, my best deadlift is only 400 pounds at a bodyweight of a little less than 200. And I have pretty long arms.

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

I told you in another thread. Your arms are crazy long. Your upper arm is almost as long as the length of your collar bone. You are built to deadlift. Doing a pullup requires a huge range of motion for someone with long arms.

Not being able to do 10 pullup is pretty bad though. Get some straps so you can focus on the target muscles and make your lats and teres major stronger without worrying about grippng the bar. That will be a step in the right direction[/quote]

Yeah I remember, grip’s not the problem (in fact its my best asset) when I fail doing pull ups its always at the bottom so I take it thats due to weak lats and rear delts? (my rear delts are non existent). Thanks for the input

[quote]TommyGunz32 wrote:
I don’t know who Dave Gulledge is

Yes you can be strong and have a great physique more often then not the two go together but simply getting stronger on the deadlift doesnt ensure your going to have a great back.

The deadlift is a great total body mass builder for the hamstrings, glutes, and lower back. Its decent for back thickness

Pull ups become increasingly hard to load and my gym only has bars that angle down as the grip widens I prefer a straight bar. I feel pulldowns better in my lats for some reason.

I prefer pulldowns(v grip, wide, reverse), rows(HS, bb, db, chest supported, cable) and pullovers for the majority of my back work.

I dont know what you mean by strength is relative

There is no right answer to this question. Everyone trains a bit differently figure out what works best for you. [/quote]

Here’s Dave Gulledge, my favourite tnation thread:
http://velocity.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/pictures_pics_photo_body_image_performance/all_powerlifters_are_fatties

Thanks for the list of back exercises. By relative I mean 10 pull ups is still 10 pull ups whether you weigh 135 or 225, just cause you’re heavier shouldn’t make it more impressive as if you’re carrying only muscle then being heavier would be an advantage while as if you’re carrying fat then there’s no justification for carrying that extra 30lb (hope that makes sense, took me 10 minutes trying to put it in words).
And you’re right there is no right answer, just wanted to see what you experienced folk though about ita

[quote]kakno wrote:
If you have to do both in the same workout, I would start with deadlifts for safety reasons. I need fresh upper back musculature to deadlift safely.

I have done 11 chinups with a 45 pound plate. And 9 reps with 55. Not super strict, but still.

Doing that only requires being skinny. Deadlifting 600 requires being strong.

Strong>>>skinny.

H4M deadlifts 660 or so. He can probably do the chins as well, but we’ll all agree that his feats of strength are far more impressive than mine.

For reference, my best deadlift is only 400 pounds at a bodyweight of a little less than 200. And I have pretty long arms.[/quote]

Dont you think you’re down-playing pulls up too much there? Most skinny guys dont have even have the bicep strength to do 5 chin ups, but I get your point though

Are you sure you have long arms? Not banging on your deadlift, but it’s not typical of a long arm guy. You can do 11 chins with 122% of your body weight, again not typical.

I’m the opposite of you. Deads are really easy for me, but true chins are very hard for me. I think I may have eeked out 8 chins with a 45 last time I went that heavy. At the same time I was doing deads of 455X2.

FTR I’m a thin and lanky 6’1 190.

If you want to look like that, then gain some fricken weight. Stop worrying about the minute details so much and focus on lifting heavy, eating a ton, and putting size on. He didn’t get that big by putting his deadlifts first or his pull-ups first, he got that big because he ate a ton (not almonds and apples tweet tweet) and he had the appropriate intensity levels in his training sessions.

dnlcdstn

who are you referring to mate?

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
If you want to look like that, then gain some fricken weight. Stop worrying about the minute details so much and focus on lifting heavy, eating a ton, and putting size on. He didn’t get that big by putting his deadlifts first or his pull-ups first, he got that big because he ate a ton (not almonds and apples tweet tweet) and he had the appropriate intensity levels in his training sessions.[/quote]

You are quickly turning into one of my favourite posters dude, I hear you loud and clear. I’m kinda watching what I’m eatin right now (its summer in this part of the world), and I’m definiely busting my ass in the gym. Its just that I’m trying to not waste time and energy on things that could be holding me back from reaching my potential, that and the fact that I have OCD when it comes to training

[quote]deadgoat wrote:

[quote]kakno wrote:
If you have to do both in the same workout, I would start with deadlifts for safety reasons. I need fresh upper back musculature to deadlift safely.

I have done 11 chinups with a 45 pound plate. And 9 reps with 55. Not super strict, but still.

Doing that only requires being skinny. Deadlifting 600 requires being strong.

Strong>>>skinny.

H4M deadlifts 660 or so. He can probably do the chins as well, but we’ll all agree that his feats of strength are far more impressive than mine.

For reference, my best deadlift is only 400 pounds at a bodyweight of a little less than 200. And I have pretty long arms.[/quote]

Dont you think you’re down-playing pulls up too much there? Most skinny guys dont have even have the bicep strength to do 5 chin ups, but I get your point though[/quote]

I’m talking about guys who lift somewhat seriously. The general population is weak, as is the average gym member, but guys who aim a little higher and lift for a few years and get stronger without getting much heavier should find this easier than a 600 pound deadlift.

And the guys who get way stronger while gaining a lot of mass would probably find the 600 pound easier.

It all depends on what you weigh. And those who weigh enough to deadlift 600 pounds are in general more impressive than the guys who are light enough to do the chins. I’m not saying the chins are incredibly easy, but a 600 pound deadlift is significantly harder, IMHO.