After 12+ yrs of squatting and a herniated disc + sciatica I recently have become convinced that the bent legged deadlift may be superior to the revered barbell back squat. After all where in man’s evolution would it be normal for a man or woman to balance a heavy weight on they’re back and repititively squat it up & down. Never. The deadlift movement of course has and stil does occur millions of times daily in a human’s normal day.
I think if the deadlift were treated the same as the squat a person could certainly build more total overall muscle w/ it than the squat. A set of 20 rep bent leg deads will certainly ring your bell just as much if not more than a proportionate squat.
I think they both have their place. Being brand new to the deadlift (done it twice ever) and a little more experienced with the squat, I can say that I would struggle to order them hierarchically. I would think that both deadlifts and squats would be pretty heavy on the spinal loading … but I suppose the squats would be more so as the weight is positioned directly on your spine.
I still squat and deadlift a laughable amount of weight so my opinion here is probably not very sound.
They’re both good. Yeah, deadlift helps picking heavy stuff off of the ground, but I feel that squats helps with jumping, and plenty of people do that. Of course, if you do both and their variations, then you’re even better off. I personally do a squat variation for 2 weeks, then deadlift variation for 2 weeks then deload.
Of course, a lot of people don’t work out their lower body and only focus on upper body so if you’re doing any deadlifting or squatting, you’re already ahead of the game.
Another thing, how often do people lay on their back and push a weight up in real life? Not very often, but that doesn’t stop people from benching.
So basically, do both because they both have their benefits and usually as one goes up, the other goes up.
[quote]DjSm28 wrote:
They’re both good. Yeah, deadlift helps picking heavy stuff off of the ground, but I feel that squats helps with jumping, and plenty of people do that. Of course, if you do both and their variations, then you’re even better off. I personally do a squat variation for 2 weeks, then deadlift variation for 2 weeks then deload.
Of course, a lot of people don’t work out their lower body and only focus on upper body so if you’re doing any deadlifting or squatting, you’re already ahead of the game.
Another thing, how often do people lay on their back and push a weight up in real life? Not very often, but that doesn’t stop people from benching.
So basically, do both because they both have their benefits and usually as one goes up, the other goes up. [/quote]
You’re absolutely right & what looks better and is more funcional??? Delts. Pushing something overhead is again normal…benching isn’t. Again, my IMO.
[quote]FortDodge wrote:
After all where in man’s evolution would it be normal for a man or woman to balance a heavy weight on they’re back and repititively squat it up & down. Never. The deadlift movement of course has and stil does occur millions of times daily in a human’s normal day.
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All of this “what happens in the real world” stuff is such crap. Really, I dont mean to go off on you, because I’ve heard it a million times before, but it’s just intellectually dishonest in so many levels. Show me ONE thing in nature that has its weight distributed evenly, both sides in perfect balance, with a handle placed conveniently in the center, with an equally convenient diameter - not too thick, not too thin. Now tell me exactly what it was that ancient man was picking up nad ONLY picking up. Picking up and carrying, yes, picking up and loading onto something higher I can believe, but just picking up to impress all his neanderthal cave buddies? I doubt it. I’m sure as somepoint somebody had to lift up a rock and just hold it - maybe someone was trapped underneath or something - but back to my first point: rocks wouldn’t have had handles.
Do what you want in the gym, and it’s certain that there are some body types more suited to DLs than squats - and vice versa - but please dont try to justify your choice with the “ancient man” routine.
All lifting has real world function since your building a stronger overall body, which helps with any physical activity.
There is no ‘best’ lift, its pointless to argue it. It is important to have a wide range of lifts you do so that your overall body gets bigger and stronger.
No. The “real world” stuff is very much backed by legit science. Its why the lats are THE muscle when exposed to resistance which will grow far & away more than any other muscle on the body.
Because ever since modern man has assumed the upright position from semi-upright the lats are basically never called into hard action in the daily life of the avg (non lifter) person. Arthur Jones pointed this out 20+ yrs ago.
[quote]FortDodge wrote:
No. The “real world” stuff is very much backed by legit science. Its why the lats are THE muscle when exposed to resistance which will grow far & away more than any other muscle on the body.
Because ever since modern man has assumed the upright position from semi-upright the lats are basically never called into hard action in the daily life of the avg (non lifter) person. Arthur Jones pointed this out 20+ yrs ago.[/quote]
???
Did a post get deleted? Where did the question of stimulating the lats get brought up? Was this in response to me?
[quote]KBCThird wrote:
FortDodge wrote:
After all where in man’s evolution would it be normal for a man or woman to balance a heavy weight on they’re back and repititively squat it up & down. Never. The deadlift movement of course has and stil does occur millions of times daily in a human’s normal day.
All of this “what happens in the real world” stuff is such crap. Really, I dont mean to go off on you, because I’ve heard it a million times before, but it’s just intellectually dishonest in so many levels.
Show me ONE thing in nature that has its weight distributed evenly, both sides in perfect balance, with a handle placed conveniently in the center, with an equally convenient diameter - not too thick, not too thin. Now tell me exactly what it was that ancient man was picking up nad ONLY picking up.
Picking up and carrying, yes, picking up and loading onto something higher I can believe, but just picking up to impress all his neanderthal cave buddies? I doubt it. I’m sure as somepoint somebody had to lift up a rock and just hold it - maybe someone was trapped underneath or something - but back to my first point: rocks wouldn’t have had handles.
Do what you want in the gym, and it’s certain that there are some body types more suited to DLs than squats - and vice versa - but please dont try to justify your choice with the “ancient man” routine.
[/quote]
Hear FUCKING Hear!!
And as for overheads versus benching… when have you ever had to lift a max load directly over your head? You might put the cereal away on the top shelf every day, but that’s not exactly stressful is it?
If you wanted something really “functional” for the shoulders, Viking Presses would be a better choice.
But anyone who trains to be “functional” usually doesn’t have all to tight a grasp on reality or the ability to go thru a logical thought process, so that might explain why overheads are preferred…
[quote]KBCThird wrote:
FortDodge wrote:
No. The “real world” stuff is very much backed by legit science. Its why the lats are THE muscle when exposed to resistance which will grow far & away more than any other muscle on the body.
Because ever since modern man has assumed the upright position from semi-upright the lats are basically never called into hard action in the daily life of the avg (non lifter) person. Arthur Jones pointed this out 20+ yrs ago.
???
Did a post get deleted? Where did the question of stimulating the lats get brought up? Was this in response to me?[/quote]
I have no idea what’s going on either.
Is the suggestion “Lats have the greatest potential for muscle growth in the human body”?
[quote]shizen wrote:
All lifting has real world function since your building a stronger overall body, which helps with any physical activity.
There is no ‘best’ lift, its pointless to argue it. It is important to have a wide range of lifts you do so that your overall body gets bigger and stronger. [/quote]
Yeah it really is old news the squat vs deadlift debate. Both are lifts that make you bigger and stronger. Neither one is more functional.
I understand the “picking things up” argument (no it doesn’t have to be a perfectly loaded bar) but we’ve evolved a bit (athletically) and since we can squat safely we do it to make ourselves stronger.
Guys think about this too, the “real world” muscle we speak of is non-existent. Most jobs/life-styles require very little physical activity, (remember, do the OPPOSITE of what other people do) it takes next to 0 muscle to get through a normal day–look at most Americans!
It boils down to your choice, if squatting is your thing, squat to get better and vice versa.
For total real world functional strength: get a 35" TV with picture tube and throw out all of your weights.
It weighs about 150#, is about as wide as you can reach to grip, and the weight is about 2 feet out in front of you.
It is cumbersome to pick up (total ass to grass), will pull you over if you don’t lean back, and you will exercise your core going through doors as you balance on your knees to find a more narrow grip.
Finally it will tax the posterior chain as you try to position it into a stand without scratching the cabinet or dropping the set.
This is exactly opposite my experience. My deadlift can go up 50 pounds, and if I haven’t been working my squat equally as hard, it may only go up 5 pounds.
From what I’ve seen and experienced, if you squat all the time, you’ll probably be a decent deadlifter, but if all you do is deadlift, your squat is going to suck.
[quote]KBCThird wrote:
FortDodge wrote:
After all where in man’s evolution would it be normal for a man or woman to balance a heavy weight on they’re back and repititively squat it up & down. Never. The deadlift movement of course has and stil does occur millions of times daily in a human’s normal day.
All of this “what happens in the real world” stuff is such crap. Really, I dont mean to go off on you, because I’ve heard it a million times before, but it’s just intellectually dishonest in so many levels. Show me ONE thing in nature that has its weight distributed evenly, both sides in perfect balance, with a handle placed conveniently in the center, with an equally convenient diameter - not too thick, not too thin. Now tell me exactly what it was that ancient man was picking up nad ONLY picking up. Picking up and carrying, yes, picking up and loading onto something higher I can believe, but just picking up to impress all his neanderthal cave buddies? I doubt it. I’m sure as somepoint somebody had to lift up a rock and just hold it - maybe someone was trapped underneath or something - but back to my first point: rocks wouldn’t have had handles.
Do what you want in the gym, and it’s certain that there are some body types more suited to DLs than squats - and vice versa - but please dont try to justify your choice with the “ancient man” routine.
[/quote]
Actually my squat is much more than my current DL. I particularly like the day after a w/out I don’t have back or knee pain. Regardless of what anyone says its not normal nor chiropractically healthy to squat to or below parallel w/ a heavy weight on your shoulders. I bet Paul Anderson during those last two years of his life wished he never would have heard of squatting considering despite (2) hip replacement surgeries he still was unable to walk. Bob Peoples lived a L-O-N-G healthy life despite setting a WR DL which stood for 20+ yrs, Anderson did neither.
Justify squatting anyway you want. I’ll never squat again and I’m satisfied just fine w/ my 28in thighs.
Thats fair enough mate, If your satisfied with the results you are getting, then all the more power to you. The great thing about training is, that its a reflection of what you enjoy doing at the end of the day.
Sure, have big goals and train hard, but most people do it for fun at the end of the day, even elite lifters, they do it coz they enjoy it. (enjoy winning and busting records too)
Personally, I like squatting ass to the grass, just like benching all the way down til the bar touches my chest, and I dont bounce, this is just me personally. I cant lift as much as if I was going paralell, 50kg more if i just went paralell, but I enjoy going all the way down, for sprinting also, I think its more effective going ass to grass. Again, just my opinion, many wont agree.
I enjoy the deadlift far more as an exercise though, nothing like ripping an insane amount of weight off of the floor and standing at the top of the lift thinking ‘fuck yea.’
"nothing like ripping an insane amount of weight off of the floor and standing at the top of the lift thinking ‘fuck yea.’ "
^ Never have more true words been spoken re: Deadlifting! The total posterior side of you body contracting from the traps to the calves. Squats have never given me that kinda feeling.