Is it too much to do 5x5 squats followed by 3x8 deadlifts in the same workout? Or should dls and squats be rotated?
In CT's Mutation Series part 2 he has back squats at 5x5 and romanian deadlifts at 3x10 so I wouldn't think it would be too much of a problem.
Deads and Squats are two of the most demanding movements that you can perform in the Gym. I never Squat on the day I do Deads. But then again I am performing more than total sets in one workout. I don't think the above is to much to do in one session, mainly because it's only 8 sets total.
personally i think if you think it's too much..than it's too much, everyone is different...for me squats and dead are extremely taxing and would never think of doing them on the same day...just listen to your body, if you have the strength, energy and reason to do them on the same day...than go for it
front squats and DL would be better as front squats put less stress on the lower back than back squats. I used to front squat before pulling and it went well.
Thanks for the input; I have been doing squats and DLs on the same day without a problem, i just wanted to make sure that it isnt counterproductive.
Most importantly, time will tell.
Given your parameters it may not be counterproductive, BUT, I would suggest to you that it may be more productive to do them on different days and begin those two workouts with one of those lifts.
To equate or suggest that because a highly trained lifter did them on the same day so it must be ok is a tad naive.
To limit your sets of each to lift both on the same day is ok on a certain cycle possibly, but more bang for your buck to do more sets/volume of each exercise on two different days as opposed to one.
I think that RDL's are classed more as an assistance exercise and can be combined with a main exercise like back squats. Full deadlifts are more taxing and I would advise separating them from back squats. The two exercises are relatively similar in the effect they have on the whole body so I think it would be mroe productive to include a different type of exercise in that workout.
thanks again, i will try separating the two exercises for a while and see how I feel about it. One question about DLs, i have very small hands for my size and have troulbe holding 275+ lbs for more than 5 reps. I have tried the hook grip but it feels like my thumb is going to rip off, anymore suggestions?
I agree with what was said above, while doing squats and DLs on the same day you probably aren't bein counterproductive, however you probably aren't performing to peak on the second exercise. Splitting them up allows you to really work the two different motions to the max. As for holding the bar, train your grip. Check out some rock climbing sites for info on grip training, there's tons of great exercises out there for getting stronger hands.
I have the same problem and need to train my grip more as a result. I think things like farmers walks and plate pinch holds would be some of the better exercises to do for this. Also, training with thick bars some of the time is meant to assist as well.
Do NOT allow your grip to be your limiting factor. Use straps for lifts heavier than your grip will allow. The grip will come--or it won't, but use what's available to progress in weight.
Also, stop doing 5+ reps if that is a problem.
Personally, 5 would be a max end rep range, probably only used on the warm-up sets for me. I know everyone's different. But I don't see great benefit in deadlifting any weight over 5 times wexcept for warm-up. And that would only be for 1 possibly 2 sets. There are better ex.'s to use for higher reps.
Kepp your heavy sets at 3-2-1
You can get a lot of smart and experienced people tell you both sides of this issue are the only way to go.
i come down on the side of squatting and DLing in the same day. Why? Because i have to do it in a meet. You don't have to go balls to the wall every time. Always squat first as DL wears out the back, which is the squat weak point for most. I SQ/DL twice a week, once raw for multi low reps sets raw, then once later in the week, usually heavy in one lift and dynamically the other. So speed squat then a ME DL or vice versa. I have done speed on both and Max effor ton both.
You just have to man up a bit because on meet day you will be tired after the BP. Not as tired as you are after a hard squat workout.