T Nation

Deadlifts and CNS Burnout

Hi CT,

I know there is a clear divide on the subject of CNS burnout especially related to deadlift. A while back i remember you posted in the livespills about a program you and a friend were doing called “push/hips powerbuilding” which included deadlifting 3 x a week and i never remember you reporting any ill effects or burnout from this program. I also recall you saying recently that talking about old programs is like talking about an ex. My question is, despite this, on the knowledge you have gained since then is there anything you would do differently as i know your views are different now on this subject.

PS. I know i ask alot of questions but my aim is not not just ask individual questions but hopefully questions which will answer many others questions in the forum and therefore making it more of a share of information.

Many Thanks

I do not remember that program. But regarding the deadlift, I can tell you this:

  1. You can train it often
  2. You cannot train it hard often if it is part of a regular program
  3. You can train it a bit more frequently if you focus only on the deadlift

In a balanced human being, the deadlift is the movement that puts the organism (your body) under a load that is the closest to its structural limit. For example a hypothetical above average, balanced 180lbs lifter might do the following lifts:

Bench: 275lbs
Squat: 370lbs
Deadlift: 440lbs
Military press: 165lbs
Power clean: 265lbs

As you can see, even the second highest lift is still about 10% less than the deadlift. And these are very balanced numbers, it is not rare to find someone deadlift 100lbs+ than he can squat.

So the systemic load is the highest with the deadlift, which makes it a lot more stressful on the organism.

Now, can you deadlift often? Sure, if you use loads that are not so high as they put a large burden on the body… to me that is 70-80%, and even at those weights we must use rep numbers that are not limit for that weight… so no more than 3-5 reps. Anything more than that on either one of those two variables risk putting too much stress on the body.

Now you CAN deadlift heavier or harder more often, but only if you drastically reduce the amount of training stress from other exercises.

Would you say 5x5 is too much for deadlift CT? Perhaps 5/6 x 3 would be more suited?

[quote]vegeta99 wrote:
Would you say 5x5 is too much for deadlift CT? Perhaps 5/6 x 3 would be more suited? [/quote]

It depends on the load, nit just the reps. 5x5 with the max weight yu can lift for 5 reps (85-88%) is a very hard workout, 5x5 at 80% a fairly demanding day, 5x5 at 70% is a fairly easy day. You cannot just consider the number of sets and reps.

If someone wants to deadlift 3 times a week, he can have one hard session and two “easy” sessions. For two moderate sessions and one easy session.

http://www.T-Nation.com/strength-training-topics/494

That’s the link to your old spill CT. You mention that the reps on the main exercises are ramped up to 3-5 in the same style as HP mass i.e. launch style of rep, never grinding.

Could I try 1 heavy day with 2 lighter speed days?

Thanks again

[quote]Hull2012 wrote:
http://www.t-nation.com/strength-training-topics/494

That’s the link to your old spill CT. You mention that the reps on the main exercises are ramped up to 3-5 in the same style as HP mass i.e. launch style of rep, never grinding.

Could I try 1 heavy day with 2 lighter speed days?

Thanks again[/quote]

Sure that’s doable. But what does the rest of your week look like?

The rest of the week involves 3 upper body press days which involves push press and bench press as main movements ramping in the same style as the deadlift days.

High pulls are the second main movement on the deadlift day.

After the two main movements are completed, 1-2 accessory exercise are completed for 4-6 x 4-6 reps.

Thanks CT

[quote]Hull2012 wrote:
The rest of the week involves 3 upper body press days which involves push press and bench press as main movements ramping in the same style as the deadlift days.

High pulls are the second main movement on the deadlift day.

After the two main movements are completed, 1-2 accessory exercise are completed for 4-6 x 4-6 reps.

Thanks CT[/quote]

That’s a lot of volume on the pulling days, especially on the hard deadlifting day. Stick to 1 accessory exercise at the most. I would only do high pulls on the speed deadlift days and would actually start with the high pulls, then the speed deadlifts.

Ok, ive been very interested in the power holds you wrote about a while back. Could it be a good idea to maybe replace the accessory movements with a power hold for 7 sets of 7-12 seconds?

Thanks

is this what makes the dead squat launch a better option for the layer system?

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
the systemic load is the highest with the deadlift, which makes it a lot more stressful on the organism[/quote]The same applies for rack (just below the knee) deadlifts ?

[quote]tolismann wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
the systemic load is the highest with the deadlift, which makes it a lot more stressful on the organism[/quote]The same applies for rack (just below the knee) deadlifts ?
[/quote]

Juat below the knees, yes. The axial loading is just as high as a regular deadlift. Partials from above the knees are a bit less stressful despite very heavy weights, but they do not have much carryover over anything.

[quote]deadliftindago21 wrote:
is this what makes the dead squat launch a better option for the layer system?[/quote]

Yes because the launch limits yourself to weight that you can lift explosively which will end up being roughly 70-80% of the max you can lift in a non-explosive good form.

Thanks CT, I will be switching those in instead of a traditional trap bar deadlift. What would you recommend as the next best thing to front squats for assistance work.