T Nation

Deadlifts, 5 Signs of Overtraining Vid


#1

What's up guys/girls?

I've had some good response to this video from other gym rats, and I'm all about spreading knowledge around. I'm aware that this has been discussed before, but more of a good thing usually isn't a problem.

The discussion starts around 6:30.


#2

Sorry, but this video and bro lost all credibility at: "Now I don't actually know the reasoning behind that..."

So, it's some random dude who thinks he's an expert reciting information he's read on the internet. Cool.


#3

If I thought I was an expert, I wouldn't say "I don't actually know the reasoning behind that." Make sense?

Also, the information I'm discussing in this video is my educated opinion that has been formed from 10 years of training experience. I've experienced everything I talk about, and watched my clients experience it as well, and it is not from internet articles.

Clearly you're quick to hate on me based on a tiny portion of my discussion, so I'm not worried that you don't respect my opinion.

Just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents on your comment. Have a good one,

Ryan


#4

lots of IFBB guys cant give technical answers to why things work...so, do they lose credibility?


#5

First, thanks for responding in a formal manner. I appreciate that. I regret posting in the manner I did, or at all.

I did watch the video, and I don't disagree with anything that's been mentioned. I have seen and experienced these symptoms as well. I guess I feel as though this is relatively well-known information in the weight-lifting world, especially for a website like this that claims to have an "intelligent" approach to the bodybuilding lifestyle - especially with many authors having discussed this with anecdotes as well as relevant studies and references. What I fail to realize is that not everyone may also know this information.

So, without the ability to actually redact my comments I'll subvert myself into silence and let this thread take its proper course.

Lol, sorry Rock, I could respond to this in a number of ways that would discourse this thread further, so I'm not touching this one. Like I mentioned above, I apologize for sending the thread down this course initially.


#6

SSC,

I responded in the way I did because, well, I'm not a prick :slight_smile: I'm a guy who has genuine passion for training/nutrition and I like to spread what I know to those who might not know.

I know there are articles out there, but like I said, more of a good thing isn't usually a problem.

Also, thanks for not going off on Rockula's comment, as I know it coulda got ugly.

No need to stay silent, I'm glad you said you've experienced the signs as well. Some people deny that they even exist and call deloading a myth! Thanks for your input,

Ryan


#7

DAMN IT

I wanted to derail this thread. eh, carry on


#8

How do you feel about FST-7 ?


#9

Sounds like a military operation.


#10

I feel like training any other way is a mistake


#11

it is

it creates super sodiers two of whici you may be familiar with

Jay Cutler
Phil Heath


#12

GO TEAM FST-7


#13

Good and informative video. I subscribed :slightly_smiling:

I have definitely experienced all of those symptoms at some point, and have interpreted them as signs of maybe pushing things a little too hard in the gym (or not pushing enough on recovery). I'm glad I did though, because these things teach you about your own body if your conscious about them. Sometimes I have experienced only one of the symptoms, sometimes a combination of several.

I usually don't use a specific protocol like deloading to deal with these issues because I loathe lifting light weights, but I do make adjustments in my training and daily life. First of all, I focus on upping my calories and get more sleep in order to outeat and sleep away the problems. The second adjustment I make is training wise. For instance, this week I have been sleeping really weird and training wasn't feeling too good. Yesterday was lower body, and after I had done the front squats I felt like shit. So I skipped lunges, glute hams and the other weight work and pulled the sled for six lengths instead and called it a day. This is how I usually train. My four main lifts for the week are programmed, while the assistance is more loose and goes more by feel. This allows me to regulate my training and I believe I can train intense for a prolonged period without needing a deload using this approach. The key here is to be able do differentiate from a bad day and somewhat chronic stress. Sometimes I experience prolonged fatigue, but still make progress in the gym. In those situations I tell my self to ride things out for a few more weeks until the training cycle is done, and then do a deload. The few times I do an actual deload is either those situations, or when they just come naturally, like traveling or holidays which often means more days out of the gym.

Enough rambling. I'm out :stuck_out_tongue:


#14

You sound like a seasoned veteran man, great post. Yes, the key is to differentiate between a bad day and multiple bad days. I talk about this in parts 1 and 2, which you'll see now that you're subscribed. Thanks for subbing btw, I appreciate it a ton!

Your training approach sounds very similar to mine, except that my accessory work is programmed as well, but not as intricately as my four core movements. You seem like you would enjoy this too, read it as your leisure if you'd like: http://growthstimulustraining.com/trial.pdf No rush, just something I thought you'd like.

Have a good one man,

Ryan


#15

One thing I also wanted to ask you deals with the whole eating more thing. You said you increased your calories, BUT: What if you're cutting or already gaining more fat than you'd like during a bulk? Should you eat more in those cases?


#16

@ SSC: Just about the best damn recovery I've ever seen. Awesome dude

@ 2020Wellness: IMO, your post belongs in the Beginners forum. If posted there, I doubt SSC would have reacted the way he did. In the Bodybuilding forum, higher standards are in play. Here, when you submit a post like this, you are implicitly claiming to be an expert. Here I would expect some tips on how to manage over-training as it emerges so you can continue through your current plan.

But as it stands, this post is all basic information. I found your comments about sleep (which you confuse with rest) and your ultimate diagnosis of over-training, to be much too simplistic. Over-training is a very tricky thing to identify despite your claims in the vid. It really is a beginner's interpretation.

Don't get me wrong - your body shows good development - you know your $h!t at some level. But when your post starts with "other gym rats" the Bodybuilding forum is not the right place for your post.

Peace - Chris


#17

In response to your first sentence; thanks for your opinion. Higher standards might be present in this forum, but I'll promise you the same people who look in the beginner forum also look here. I am not claiming to be an expert. I am simply a career trainer who trains everyday as my primary source of income. I have been seriously training/eating and learning for 10 years, so although I don't claim to be an expert, I know I am more seasoned than the average weight lifter.

I do not confuse sleep with rest. I specifically talk about sleep patterns being altered. I know the importance of recovery, but in this case, sleep patterns are the focus.

I disagree that it is that hard to diagnose, and I have no problem agreeing to disagree there....not really a big deal.

I have to say, it's pretty strange that since I used the term 'gym rat' that my post is not OK for this forum......seems like a pretty weird thing to say. Gym rat, bodybuilder, passionate trainee, they can all be used to describe the same type of person really. Oh well, telling me which words I should and shouldn't use is just being nit picky, ya know?

I'll post this in the beginner forum and see what happens. More good information is better anyways.

I'll close in the same way that I opened. Thanks for your opinion sir.

Ryan


#18

Thanks :slight_smile:

My accessory work is programmed in the sense that I have a set of exercises I usually do, but there's no clear progression scheme on them. I looked in the link and it looks like a sensible program. I have been training relatively similarly for quite some time now, except that I have a quite higher volume on upper body simply because I feel I can get away with it at the moment. My split looks like this:

Day 1: Quad dominant lower body, main exercise is front squat
Day 2: Pulling upper body, main exercise is weighted wide grip pull-ups
Day 3: Pressing upper body, main exercise is bench press
Day 4: Hip dominant lower body, main exercise is deadlift
Day 5: Pulling upper body, main exercise is pull-ups with a close pulldown handle
Day 6: Pressing upper body, main exercise is push press

Main exercises are done for 3 - 5 reps, supplement work is done for higher. I might go something like 12 days straight if I'm feeling invincible, but on average I do 3 days on, 1 day off.

I have never gained more fat than I was comfortable with, and thus never done a cut, so this is just going to be thoughts and not experience from my side. I think if a trainee is getting too fat on a bulk, overtrained or not, he should obviously consider easing up on the eating, as unnecessary fat gain is unwanted for bodybuilders.

An analogy I like to think for myself is that a trainee has a genetical max of for instance 100 recovery "points". If diet, sleep and other restorative factors are all spot on he has those 100 points to spend. If the trainee trains like he has 90 points he is not using his potential. If he trains like he has 110 which is above his ability to recover more eating will not help since recovery measures are already maxed, and thus he'll need to cut down on the training in order to make the equation go zero. If he uses 100 training "points" and only has implemented recovery measures for 90, then more food, rest etc might help. It's just a matter of not training above your ability to recover, and knowing whether you are over training or under recovering. Training and recovery should be in equilibrium. Again, this is just a way of thought for myself.

If I ever were to do a cut I would do it slowly with no rush, and should I find myself under recovering I probably would try to increase calories a little bit, but still stay in a slight deficit and stay there for a little while and see what happened. This is also where cheat days and carb ups come in. Diet for 6 days, rest and eat more on the seventh. I would also look into my training. I know for a fact that nothing beats the living daylights out of me like running, so if I were doing intervals I would ease up on those before lifting.


#19

Little update for those who think deloading is a myth. I'm fresh off my 50% week and I'm feeling rejuvenated, refreshed, and the weights that were feeling heavy two weeks ago are now popping up with ease. This isn't just me either. I've got a couple of other guys just coming off as well and we're all feeling the positive effects.

Gotta love the great 'myth' of the deload! Deload to reload guys!


#20

Good video :slight_smile:

I believe the main reason why people feel de-loading (or "pulling back" as I like to call it since there are many ways of doing less) is a gimmicky myth is because they either:

1) Have really good recovery
2) Automatically do it without thinking too much about it (instinctively do less, take days off here or there incidentally or on purpose)
3) Change things like reps/exercises etc, which can force you to do less without realising it and/or can serve as a break for the nervous system.

For those with maybe an obsessive nature, who likes to keep everything very structured, with average recovery, deloading or whatever you want to call it is a good thing (once newbie gains have been made, and well into the intense/serious stage).