T Nation

Deadlifting and Squats in Routine


#1

Hi guys

Training for around 2.5 years now and having a problem where I don't feel I am getting around to my workouts quick enough due to DOMS

This is pretty much only for legs - specifically hamstrings

For example I try to do a 4 day split training 3-4 days a week (Tues, Wed, Fri, Sat)

1.)leg day
I do squats, and leg press and some calf work

2.)Back and Bicep day
Pullups, cable rows, barbell curls, DB curls

3.)Deadlift day
Deadlifts, lunges and ab work

4.)Chest tricep and shoulders day
Bench press, db press, tricep dips, tricep isolation, shoulder press

But I end up doing chest workout in before deadlifts as my hamstrings usually are sore still from squats and feel like they will pull / strain if I deadlift

So then I dont get back to deadlift for another day or two, by that time its anywhere 10 to 12 days from the last deadlift session

This feels like it takes too long to get back to the exercise (I can recover from chest, tricep, quad, calf and back work in 3-4 days)

Of course its possible this is a normal timeframe? And I am doubling the work on hams with squats and deadlifts

So Im asking ,what does everyone else do?

Same time between heavy lifts? i.e. 10 or so days
Not do heavy lifts for deads and squats?
Have a different split of bodyparts? (dont see how to)
Do deads and squats on the same day!? (no chance)

Fire away


#2

Have you tried eating more, and sleeping more?


#3

I just squat and deadlift on the same day.


#4

What weights, reps and sets did you use on your last deadlift day and on your last squat day?

Your split looks a little unbalanced. A popular solution is push, pull, legs (alternate between squats and deads on "leg" day). You're doing push legs pull legs, and your legs will of course have a much harder time recovering than everything else. I'd definitely change that if I had your problem.

Or you could do and upper/lower split. Might be good if you won't train more than 4 days a week.

If you don't want to change your split you could try emphasizing quads more on squat day by doing front squats and/or narrowing your stance.

More sleep, more food, stretching and using some light weight for very high reps at the end of your workout could help with recovery.

Last of all: Training through soreness isn't necessarily bad. If you're getting stronger you are recovering.


#5

x2 on squatting and pulling on the same day. Adds a nice stimulation to trap/upper back and then you hit it directly on back day.


#6

I do leangains at the moment... criticize away but its working well

Its basically fasted 8pm to 12midday for me and then a window to eat with training around 4:30

Calories are usually 2600 - 3000 and protein + green steamed and salads is %90 of what I eat with nuts in the mix and protein shake straight after w/o

Sleep around 8hrs and feel pretty good, sometimes I cant sleep and its closer to 7hrs

There is always room to improve I'm sure


#7

I was doing this - squat and dead same day

Then saw a lot of people doing back (including deads) and biceps. I just couldn't see me doing squats, deadlifts, biceps and back on the same day, so hence splitting it to do back, dead and bi (pulling) and squats different days


#8

do you foam roll? i've found i rarely get DOMS - instead i get a tension in my muscles that can be rolled away so i'm not suffering.

hammies are hard to get to... lacross ball might help. remember, the aim is to get the muscle to relax not to get it to cramp up in pain!


#9

I did squats
all have 2 min rest between sets except last which has 4mins rest
10 x 130lbs
8 x 150lbs
7 x 176lbs
7 x 176lbs
3 x 220lbs

Not the best week as ill usually get 4-5 on last set
Follow on with some leg press machine and calf work

Then deads was
2min rest except last 2 sets 4 min rest
10 x 130lbs
9 x 150lbs
8 x 176lbs
7 x 198lbs
6 x 220lbs
4 x 240lbs

This day has only recently been split to its own day where I do lunges and abs + flexibility / stretching

Emphasizing quads might be a good idea, front squats and narrow stance

I have tried training through soreness, but it feels like I am pulling the muscle / about to pull it - only have it in the hamstring though, which are quite tight and its something I am working on to improve flexibility.


#10

It's normal to experience some soreness when lifting weights, but you can reduce your chances of getting very sore by:

Warming up before your workouts
Stretching after your workouts

if you do get sore, you can treat it with rest, hot baths, massage, and I've heard fish oil.....

Or is DOMS a serious illness or something?
I thought it was just being sore after you work out?


#11

Yeh, I think I saw an article on here recently about foam rolling being beneficial if you actually hold on the sore / tension point for 30s to allow the brain to "connect" with where the tension is and then it signals to the muscle to make it release.

I have found foam rolling good for ITB, but you are right, Im not sure how best to get in to hams


#12

Well there's your problem!
Big lifting takes big eating, but I understand that it's probably not your goal to be OMG gigantic, or else you probably wouldn't be on leangains..

So I would recommend, BCAA's intra-workout, in large enough servings I've found they can almost completely eliminate soreness. As others have mentioned, foam rolling, properly warming up, yada yada..

Would it be worth it for you to add some form of carbs around workout time only? Even if only a little bit it should help with how you lift, and how you recover, without making you gain much if any fat. I know when I go extremely low carb that I feel like dying on the inside.. but you could be feeling great, and if that's the case keep doing what you're doing.


#13

Nope, totally normal for me!

But its taking longer for my hams to recover than other body parts, and I was wondering what everyone else did to get heavy squats and deadlifts inside a 10 day period

but as with all problems, you are never the first to have them


#14

So you do legs Tuesday and by Friday your legs are not recovered enough for deadlifts?


#15

I wouldn't call it low carb! I do take VPX no-shotgun intra and just prior to workout

Whats your workout timing for Deads and squats? Maybe I expect too much from mine


#16

Yep

Did legs on Tuesday, and today (Sunday) they feel ok, but I did light 40 min cardio (walk) yesterday instead of deadlifts because they were still not quite OK.

If I had to guess, I feel it most in the Semitendinosus muscle


#17

So it seems most people do get deadlifts and squats on the same day

If they don't, they do recover easily enough to get back inside 10days

So it seems I must be doing something wrong recovery wise, need more food, sleep, BCAA, stretching or warmup/cooldown... or combination of

?


#18

I think of DOMS like I think about a nasty hangover. The best way to deal with a nasty hangover is a few drinks in the morning. Likewise, the best way to deal with DOMS is to go train.


#19

Lol

Sucrose is apparently the only thing that speeds the removal of alcohol

Light training?


#20

Are you male or female? (Not at all meant as an insult, but both seem possible here)

Looks like you're going to or near failure before your heaviest set. I'd do something more like
2x10xbar
5x60kg
3x80kg
(possibly 1-3x90)
as many as possible x 100 kg (or more)
(optional: as many as possible with 80-90 kg, but this will increase recovery time)

And on deads: 10xbar
10x60kg
5x80kg
3x100kg
as many as possible x 110 kg or more
(optional: as many as possible with 80-100, but this will increase recovery time)

Try taking it a little easier while ramping up and then going all out on your top set. The way you're doing it makes you sorer and limits the weight you can use.

Do the muscles of your upper body respond well to being worked once a week? You might want to increase the frequency.