Deadlifting and Overhead Pressing--Athletes

2nd most primitive movement:

Killing things.

[quote]a2_z wrote:
If an athlete trains consistently in the sport he/plays the athlete will develop imbalances. The examples I proposed above are examples of what basketball players primarily need to utilize during the year because of the quad dominance the sport of basketball is. The result of never using corrective exercises will negatively effect the athletes’ posture, which in turn will decrease performance. The two exercises correct and strengthen what I believe to be the most vital muscles to exert and transfer energy from the ground to the top of your body.

Olympic lifts are also fantastic in the world of sports, because the fact that the exercises are “powerful” in nature, as opposed to power lifts which are more geared on max efforts.

I also love barbell rows.

I emphasize posterior chain exercises primarily in my workouts.
I do this because of how important these muscles are in forward propulsion. The biceps femoris, semitendinosus, and semimembranosus(hamstrings) are the muscle utilized most in the stretching of the leg during sprinting and the gluteus Maximus, minimus, and medius are the activated the most as your foot is in contact with the surface (exerting force) and as you are decelerating. The movement involved in sprinting, hip extension; the movement involved In deadlifting, hip extension. I would like to watch someone attempt to sprint without standing with perfect posture at top speed-- what does your body do at the top of a deadlift, ideally? Perfect posture. The resemblances between sprinting and deadlifting are more than most believe.
[/quote]

Well good luck with all that.

What are you trying to accomplish?

Humans have primitive movements: press, bend(hip extension), squat, pull, twist, lunge.

Elliott Hulse introduced this idea to me.

That man is a genius.

"According to holistic health practitioner Paul Chek, the foundation for all basic human movements can reduced down to only six ?Primal Patterns?. These patterns are examples of Generalized Motor Programs ? what this means is that our brain stores single movement patterns that can be executed alone, in tandem, or simultaneously to one another to create every movement that the body must perform for survival.

An example of a generalized movement pattern is the squat. If a person cannot squat effectively then he is at risk of physical dysfunction and injury, among other things. This fact supposes that if one were to improve their strength and fitness level he must perform squats as opposed to using a leg press or a leg curl machine in the gym to improve performance.

Today we are nothing more than primal men wearing Ed Hardy t-shirts and Lucy Jeans, sitting at desks all day long. It would then follow; that in order for us to construct the lean, rock solid and strong bodies that our ancestors had ? we must move the way they moved. We must perform primal pattern exercises, and since many of our bodies have become so stiff, uncoordinated and dysfunctional we must also find ways to perform ?dumbed down? versions of what was one essential to perform. Also, if you are of above average fitness you will need to include ?hyped up? versions of these patterns also."

Alright, you’ve seen a few Elliot Hulse videos. All of your posts make sense now. I know this stuff is exciting, but I encourage you to keep an open mind before deciding that you know all there is to know about strength and conditioning because you watched a youtube video about movement patterns. Come to think of it, thats probably where you got the idea that correcting all postural dysfunctions came down to “stretching the anterior structures and strengthening the posterior structures” too.

Since you seem interested in this stuff, I’d check out Dan John’s writing about training movement patterns on this site. Beyond that, Paul Chek and Jay Ferrugia are people you’d probably be interested in. When it comes to getting a deeper understanding of “corrective” exercise, you might like Eric Cressey, Mike Robertson, and Gray Cook.

I think you need a few more years of training experience.

Your reasoning is based on premises that sound good and “make sense”, but you don’t have the experience to know if those premises are flawed.

When you start bringing in “primal man” into things, it just becomes an avenue for a lot of different biases. Primal man was an excellent climber of trees (because he had to to look out for hunting), so you should spend your time climbing rocks and trees and being as lightweight as possible. Primal man was an excellent runner (because he had to to outrun his prey to exhaustion) and so you should avoid weight training and focus on distance running. Primal man was big and strong (because he had to fight off wild animals), so you should weight train and do BJJ, and we know that a heavier person is always going to be harder to fight than a lighter one, so you should put on a lot of mass.

Or, from the diet side… or activity side…

Primal man was a farmer, and lived off the land, so you should only eat grains and vegetables. Primal man was a hunter and gatherer, so you should live only on meat and nuts. Primal man was sedentary so he could conserve his energy. Primal man was active so he was ready to fight or flight at a moments notice.

So maybe you should stop listening to arguments based on theoretical premises rooted in fantasies, and instead work backwards from what has a proven track record in reality.

[quote]LoRez wrote:
When you start bringing in “primal man” into things, it just becomes an avenue for a lot of different biases. Primal man was an excellent climber of trees (because he had to to look out for hunting), so you should spend your time climbing rocks and trees and being as lightweight as possible. Primal man was an excellent runner (because he had to to outrun his prey to exhaustion) and so you should avoid weight training and focus on distance running. Primal man was big and strong (because he had to fight off wild animals), so you should weight train and do BJJ, and we know that a heavier person is always going to be harder to fight than a lighter one, so you should put on a lot of mass.

Or, from the diet side… or activity side…

Primal man was a farmer, and lived off the land, so you should only eat grains and vegetables. Primal man was a hunter and gatherer, so you should live only on meat and nuts. Primal man was sedentary so he could conserve his energy. Primal man was active so he was ready to fight or flight at a moments notice.

So maybe you should stop listening to arguments based on theoretical premises rooted in fantasies, and instead work backwards from what has a proven track record in reality.[/quote]

Thank you :slight_smile: Could you send this bit to Ido Portal, Mark Sisson, Rob Wolf and a few others?

So basically what I’m seeing in this thread is an overly-enthusiastic beginner with very little practical, real world experience and a relatively-large amount of articles read/videos watched, trying to speak very matter-of-fact and preach the way to more experienced lifters (several of whom have literally been there and done that) while glossing over, sidestepping, if not entirely neglecting, many valid points that refute his position.

Cool beans.

I think the Primal Man Deadlift and Press Program could have some real synergy with the Predator Program.

Look up PureNsanity and join forces with him.

[quote]a2_z wrote:
Humans have primitive movements: press, bend(hip extension), squat, pull, twist, lunge.

Elliott Hulse introduced this idea to me.

That man is a genius.
[/quote]

A genius or just repeating one of Dan Johns most basic and oft repeated philosophies?

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
So basically what I’m seeing in this thread is an overly-enthusiastic beginner with very little practical, real world experience and a relatively-large amount of articles read/videos watched, trying to speak very matter-of-fact and preach the way to more experienced lifters (several of whom have literally been there and done that) while glossing over, sidestepping, if not entirely neglecting, many valid points that refute his position.

Cool beans.[/quote]

But he can nearly press 100lbs, so he might be on to something.

I’m a sponge; I take everything I learn and store it. I know I don’t know everything, I want to know as much as I can. I enjoy expressing my ideas and to defend those ideas, because it forces others to express their ideas and to defend those ideas as well. That’s how I learn more about the art of physical fitness.

[quote]a2_z wrote:
I’m a sponge; I take everything I learn and store it. I know I don’t know everything, I want to know as much as I can. I enjoy expressing my ideas and to defend those ideas, because it forces others to express their ideas and to defend those ideas as well. That’s how I learn more about the art of physical fitness.

[/quote]

Have you considered learning through experience as well?

I was a head basketball coach at 18 of a varsity basketball team(I had players older than me)-- I’m also on the verge of walking-on to a college this year after I begin. I’ve trained with professional basketball players and my best friends are in professional leagues. I didn’t play on a high school basketball team throughout high school, because I transferred too much(six times). I train nearly everyday. Throughout high school(everyday) I was at the gym 2-4 hrs a day as well as now. I’ve accomplished a lot in my years. I have as much experience I can have at my age; however, I am relatively new to weight training. I lived with a power lifter for years and attended meets before I attained interest in the field of strength training. Many of my favorite exercises were engraved into my ideas before I knew id be interested in this field. (Adam Hires was power lifter, 800 lb deadlifter)

High school*

I can’t tell if you are responding to me or just saying things after I say things.

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
I can’t tell if you are responding to me or just saying things after I say things.[/quote]

…might be a combination of both? I’m surprised he hasn’t interviewed himself yet.

A quick google search disproves this.

“For the barbell, it’s the deadlift and the press (all varieties). Mastery of this simple list will give any athlete all they need from the weightroom and any person the body of their dreams. Mastery walks hand in hand with simplicity.”

Dan John, the first article I’ve read of his sort of ties into my ideas or the opposite.

I’ve always felt that the deadlift and military press was most important, because the fact that the bench press leads to further dysfunction In the majority of athletes.

I’m responding to more than one person.

Inferring that I don’t workout.

I don’t learn as much as I can about something, then not apply it to my training .

I love this field. I love training. I love learning more about the things I love.

“We become what we think about.” A quote I found In a Dan john’s article.

Apparently you haven’t searched far enough, possibly if you look into my Instagram you’ll also see my players comments

[quote]a2_z wrote:
I’m responding to more than one person.

[/quote]

Well, let me know if you want to discuss things. Right now, I cannot follow your thought process.