T Nation

Deadlift vs. Squat

people need to understand that depending on how a person is built, technique, equipment used, individual weaknesses…etc, these can be very different lifts

if you want help with them, please post vids or links to vids so we may comment on form or other pertinent information

i know many lifters who have great squats and shitty pulls, and vice versa

many posters on here seem to have amazing deadlifts and crap squats…probably because the form on squat is shit, or the deadlift is hitched and they are using lifting straps or some other external variable is affecting them

not passing judgment, but from the viewpoint of someone who coaches and wants to help as many lifters as i can, please start posting vids or links so that those like me on here can help you

Thank you

[quote]Nothing weird about this. At that level of strength, I wouldn’t expect much of a squat…you have to build a foundation to be able to squat.

Whereas a lot of guys who have barely trained and never pulled before can pull 350-400 the first time they try.

I helped a buddy in school start training…he had no athletic background, much less a lifting background. He could pull mid 300s the first time he went down for a bar, and after a few weeks, he was well over 400. Get around 500 and the fun starts.

But the squat’s much more technical and you need more mass to be stable under the bar. So it takes time to groove the lift and to build the mass. As you get stronger, the ratio will work itself out…don’t worry about it.[/quote]

Poster from a previous thread.

LMFAO " ALOT of guys Pull 350-400 the first time they try" gtfo

/thread

[quote]LSUPOWERDC wrote:
people need to understand that depending on how a person is built, technique, equipment used, individual weaknesses…etc, these can be very different lifts

if you want help with them, please post vids or links to vids so we may comment on form or other pertinent information

i know many lifters who have great squats and shitty pulls, and vice versa

many posters on here seem to have amazing deadlifts and crap squats…probably because the form on squat is shit, or the deadlift is hitched and they are using lifting straps or some other external variable is affecting them

not passing judgment, but from the viewpoint of someone who coaches and wants to help as many lifters as i can, please start posting vids or links so that those like me on here can help you

Thank you[/quote]

The deadlift will almost always be higher than the squat if the lifter is going to proper depth and not using a squat suit.

Did I miss something?

[quote]milk wrote:
LMFAO " ALOT of guys Pull 350-400 the first time they try" gtfo

/thread[/quote]

I believe it, I’ve seen guys pull 300-400 off the floor who either never train or barely ever trained (technique may be horrible). Funny thing I’ve seen more guys who train have a more difficult time pulling it then guys who don’t, I really think it’s a mental barrier telling them to be cautious.

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
milk wrote:
LMFAO " ALOT of guys Pull 350-400 the first time they try" gtfo

/thread

I believe it, I’ve seen guys pull 300-400 off the floor who either never train or barely ever trained (technique may be horrible). Funny thing I’ve seen more guys who train have a more difficult time pulling it then guys who don’t, I really think it’s a mental barrier telling them to be cautious. [/quote]

if you also believe “Alot of guys pull 350-400 the first time” then you are a moron as well, this site is exactly like bb.com, got a bunch of morons living in imagination land, you realise you are talking about less then 1% of people right? not “alot” of guys if i have to quote it again.

Think of how many people you see outside and at your gym, that could/have pulled 350+ their first time. No one is arguing its impossible obviously. But read his quote. Stop talking absolute bullcrap and get some realism.

And then you are saying that “youv seen” its harder for guys who train? do you even realize what you are writing? Iv never seen ANYONE or heard of ANYONe whos deadlift was stronger their 1st day compared to where they are at now. Id love to have some of whatever both of you are smoking, I want to “see” some stuff too.

I’ll post a basic question (got no vid’s yet, sorry… I’ll see what I can get).

My squats are in proper form and ass to the grass, but I am still very weak. I’m capable of 1x20 followed by 2x10 at 150lbs, or something like 5RM at 200lbs.

My deadlifts are a little bit better (but not nearly good enough… yet), pulling 310lbs for 2-3 reps, or 5-6 reps at 280lbs.

Here my form is not too good though. I feel I’m getting too much weight to my front, not being able to keep it on my heels. I also feel that my hips are slightly skewed to the right while pulling.

My glutes are firing like hell when both squatting and doing leg presses. I cant feel them firing too well when doing deadlifts though.

What would the solution be? Keep on squatting until my squats catch up with my deads? Doing some glute/ham activation work?

I’m 6" tall, if that matters.

[quote]pinkponyz wrote:
I’ll post a basic question (got no vid’s yet, sorry… I’ll see what I can get).

My squats are in proper form and ass to the grass, but I am still very weak. I’m capable of 1x20 followed by 2x10 at 150lbs, or something like 5RM at 200lbs.

My deadlifts are a little bit better (but not nearly good enough… yet), pulling 310lbs for 2-3 reps, or 5-6 reps at 280lbs.

Here my form is not too good though. I feel I’m getting too much weight to my front, not being able to keep it on my heels. I also feel that my hips are slightly skewed to the right while pulling.

My glutes are firing like hell when both squatting and doing leg presses. I cant feel them firing too well when doing deadlifts though.

What would the solution be? Keep on squatting until my squats catch up with my deads? Doing some glute/ham activation work?

I’m 6" tall, if that matters.[/quote]

you said yourself that your form is not too good. It must be close to or perfect when you deadlift. Deadlifting is much harder then most other lifts to realize when to go up in weight.

Because with bad form you can lift much more weight and sometimes its hard to stop your ego from going up. What you want to do is lower the weight, and make 100% sure you dont go up in weight unless your form is excellent. PS if you dont feel it in your hams, then im afraid you are using too much back.

What I need is help to get my form better. I can’t get all the weight back on my heels no matter how hard I try. I suspect I keep my ass to high, but I’m having trouble lowering it.

I always keep my back straight, and if I feel that I cant make the next rep with good form I’ll just stop right there. My problem is that this happens all too often, even though I feel strong enough to lift heavier.

so you are telling me even if you lifted 135 you still cannot lift it with while driving through your heals?

i went through the same thing as you and basically had to lower the weight back to 135 and learn the right way of doing it and let my CNS learn the right way too.

Goodmornings and romanian deadlifts helped me as well.

I would think a lot of athletic guys who have never deadlifted before could hit high 300s the first time they try. Most could not do that with squatting though.

Good point. I’ve done lots of lower weigth sets to improve my form, but in my mind “those sets dont count”.

But yeah, during my warm-up sets (i.e. 175 lbs), I feel I’m driving the weight through my whole foot, not my heels. And it just gets worse (less heel, more ball/toes) with more weight. How am I to progress, if I cannot fix this flaw in my form?

[quote]Sword wrote:
I would think a lot of athletic guys who have never deadlifted before could hit high 300s the first time they try. Most could not do that with squatting though.[/quote]

athleticism has nothing to do with deadlifting. Id actually bet money on the fat redneck farmer rather then an NBA player for example as to who would deadlift 400

[quote]pinkponyz wrote:
Good point. I’ve done lots of lower weigth sets to improve my form, but in my mind “those sets dont count”.

But yeah, during my warm-up sets (i.e. 175 lbs), I feel I’m driving the weight through my whole foot, not my heels. And it just gets worse (less heel, more ball/toes) with more weight. How am I to progress, if I cannot fix this flaw in my form?[/quote]

well as i said, i know its extremely hard to do, but you will have to go lower in weight, and Increase the amout of good reps eachtime, then try to add 10lbs per week for example…

also how is your back strength/flexibility, because if its lacking, its also a big contributing factor

Got any good indicators/tests of back flexibility?

I believe my back strength at least is good enough for the weight I’m currently pulling, but flexibility… eh.

[quote]milk wrote:
LMFAO " ALOT of guys Pull 350-400 the first time they try" gtfo

/thread[/quote]

I have a friend who his first time lifting he pulled 335.

He’s a buck fourty and 15.

just sayin.

[quote]milk wrote:
Sword wrote:
I would think a lot of athletic guys who have never deadlifted before could hit high 300s the first time they try. Most could not do that with squatting though.

athleticism has nothing to do with deadlifting. Id actually bet money on the fat redneck farmer rather then an NBA player for example as to who would deadlift 400[/quote]

can’t disagree with this - grew up in farm country and there were some real strongs kids in the weight room because of the work they did on the farm

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
milk wrote:
LMFAO " ALOT of guys Pull 350-400 the first time they try" gtfo

/thread

I have a friend who his first time lifting he pulled 335.

He’s a buck fourty and 15.

just sayin.[/quote]

I don’t doubt you, but that is crap. Crap because the deadlift does not come easy for me as it does, seemingly, to everyone on here.