T Nation

Deadlift to Squat Carryover?



Wondering what you all think about the carryover from deadlift to squats.

Most people tend to experience a better carryover from squats to deadlift, but not so much other way around.
But wendler on a 4 day schedule has a ratio of 1:1 deadlift : squat.

So only 1 day, and 1 high intensity set on 5 pro each week. Would It be OK to add on another day a heavier leg exercise as assistance? Like leg press or front squats? As I know Jim advocates single leg as assist. In my opinion jim’s programs when executed as written opposed to other programs usually has a good even high average of deadlift work, an ok amount of pressing, but a low amount of squatting at higher intensities.

I really wanna make this work for me. That’s why I have so many questions. Sorry for this


Here’s an idea, pick a program Mr. Wendler wrote, follow it as written and trust the process.


If you can split stance RDL and split stance squat over half your deadlift and squat weight for reps, I assure you that you will have a formidable lower body.


I sometimes do front squats on my deadlift day, leg press works too. Why does it matter that your ratio is 1 to 1, its just 2 lifts and you do other stuff on your workouts too.


I have read all the books. I’ve done wendler about 1 year, following beyond. I made ok ish progress. I did a year of other programs after. Made faster gains, but also an injury… Bought forever. Trying to restart Wendler now using the forever templates.

First year of wendler I’ve done the program but was more upper lower split, as opposed to the full body approach he uses in Forever.

Thus lower body I did something like
1 day squats, sumo dead, leg extension, leg curl
2nd day deadlift, front squat, ghr, lunges

Now I have to select 1 of each category. And for legs it’s single leg/ core. So if u wanna do leg raises or ab rolls or hyperextensions, you get even less leg work.

I’m not an athlete in other sports. I don’t play football or do another explosive sport. I don’t have a prowler to push, I don’t have hills to climb where I live. So that’s why I wonder if I don’t need more lower body work done. And if deadlift is enough to carry over to squats.


You don’t Need more lowerbody work, but if you want to squat more often, just pick one of the full body programs from forever. You’ll get to squat two to three times a week.


I dont know the exact carryover but I can assure you that your improvements on deadlift carries over to your deadlift in a 1:1 ratio, and the same with squats.
I’ve followed Jim Wendlers programs for the last 5+ years gained a deadlift - 610, squat - 500, bench - 365, press - 225 and only squatted, benched, deadlifted and pressed once a week and I continue to see improvements yearly and sometimes monthly. Trust the process :wink:


You don’t need more heavy “leg” exercises. If you want to squat more, then pick one of the programs that has you squatting more than once a week or that has you doing a bunch of volume on one day. The ratio means less than nothing and you can get just as strong doing the lifts once a week. It’s bs when people act like you have to do the lifts such and such times a week. People who say that are almost always weak as piss themselves.


What were your starting weights before the program? 5 years ago? Do you prefer beyond? Or programs from forever? Nice lifts btw


Whenever I follow good lifters on YouTube etc, Omar Isuf, silent Mike, seba kot, Calgary barbell, tuchscherer, Clarence Kennedy,… they all use more frequencies on big lifts. So thats what makes me question things. And they are not really weak.


Thanks. I guess I deadlifted 385, squatted 310, benched 265 and pressed 155 if I recall correctly. What I prefer changes over time… I’ve made great gains using 5’s Pro and supplemental variations like FSL, BBS and especially SSL. I will say that Rhodes 5x5/3/1 as leader followed by the original 5/3/1 have always worked for me. Prior to Forever 5/3/1 I always used the orginial 5/3/1 with SST as supplemental as I felt beyond had to much leeway.

I hope this helps!

One thing I will say though… I’ve tried to increase the frequency by reversing the FSL, SSL and SST work in the past as I’ve thought alot like you and listened to too many sources. The results was never as great as when I did them as written. One lift per session with mad focus.


Do you do conditioning? Any explosive sports?
Finally someone that tries to understands my issue. And I will give it my trust. I am at 405 deadlift, 335 bench and 310 squat atm. So still kinda novice / beginner intermediate. Is it OK for me or still too early for 531? You don’t increase ur tm each month anymore at your level?


For conditioning I walk with a weighted vest for 2 miles 3-4 times a week.

As for the explosive sport - I’ve been boxing for about 12 years on a very high level. I dont know if you categorise that as a explosive sport although that was my strength in the sport.
Boxing was actually what got me into Jim Wendlers training style as our strength coach used this exact program: https://www.t-nation.com/training/531-and-athletes
I haven’t boxed the past 4-5 years as I retired due to injuries, so that definitely does not have anything to do with my improvements.

I wont say that it is too early for you to use 531 as I started at a much lower level myself, and train with people who is weaker and still does 531. Just use 5’s Pro and FSL or SSL and you’ll be pleased.


I feel if anything your squat is going to to have more carry-over to your deadlift. If your hips rise too fast when deadlifting chances are your quads are weak, just do front squats as an accessory, etc. Your upper back in both lifts needs to be significantly strong. If you want video yourself on both lifts on joker set days and see where your form starts to break down to better assess your weakness.

I don’t do any explosive sports anymore either. I just surf a lot. Which has made me always have a pretty big back. Especially when I weigh 215 and use short boards. Its takes a lot of power to out paddle the tiny surfer and little groms.


I feel fsl sets are like… Meh… Just too easy. Weights just fly up. It isn’t that my tm is too light. Cause tm x 5 feels just right.

Do you shorten rest times between fsl sets to counter this? Like a min rest?


Rest long enough so you can put in maximal effort. Whether the weight feels light or not shouldn’t matter, it is about intent to move it as fast as you possibly can and as perfectly as you can.


What the guy above me said. Training isn’t about crushing you, it’s about building you.

I can guarentee you that this will change as you get stronger and Jim actually wrote something really cool about this in the Boring But Big chapter in the Forever 5/3/1 book!

But if this is what you feel and think, and I dont see any problem in doing 5’s Pro, 5x5 @ SSL for 2-3 cycles followed by 1-2 cycles of 5/3/1, 5x5 @ FSL.


deadlifts have minimal carryover to squats but squats CAN have a good carryover to deadlifts. In other words, if you could only pick one or the other, squats win everytime.