Aw…why’d you reply to him while burning me at the same time? I know I’m not that smart…geez
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As long as the thigh is in line with the torso its still a flat situp. So if you have an old school incline board (flat) its the same thing. The ones that bend at the hip are not the same.
People did flat situps and roman chairs all the time and no one had issues with them. Once the PT’s started to infiltrate the training game, all of a sudden situps became evil.
Ah I see that clears it up.
Do you think switching from high bar to low bar squats would also benefit me? From what I understand low bar is more posterior chain dominant, and there’s also that added work for the erectors from the increased forward lean during a low bar squat.
That depends on your structure. There are some who for multiple reasons cannot low bar squat.
It is true that the low bar is more posterior chain dominant, but how much more depends again on your individual anthropometry. The glutes are the prime extensor at the major joint involved in the squat, namely the hip. The quads act as assitance to the glutes depending on the degree of hip flexion. The more the hip flexion, the less the quad involvement.
Don’t take it the wrong way, it was nothing against you.
Hah, no worries. My previous comment was more light-hearted than anything. I’m aware that you and jbackos have some drama going on between you but lets stay civil and focus on how shitty my deadlift form is. I’d imagine this thread has grown to the point where it would be a very helpful resource to anyone with similar issues I’m facing. It’d be a shame to water it down with trashtalk. I’ll try to get a rough outline of my routine up sometime in the near future.
Sounds good.
It’s definitely worth trying low bar squatting at some point if you plan to compete in powerlifting, but doing that just to build your deadlift is the wrong way to go about it. There are a few high level lifters that squat high bar and have big deadlifts too, like Bryce Lewis and Mike Hedlesky. If you can squat more with a particular technique then that’s how you want to compete, but either way high bar is a good assistance lift at the very least.
Having done some more research, I keep seeing conflicting opinions regarding the reason for back rounding. I see people claiming it’s a weak back. On the other hand, I see people claim that your back rounds because it is trying to take the load off of your glutes/hamstrings, indicating that your back is actually stronger than the latter. I’m not sure what to believe, but there certainly can’t be any harm in strengthening both.
Personally, I feel that the issue is my hamstring strength. After a simple 5x5 of good mornings with 95lbs, my hamstrings are shot today, while my lower back is fine.
Not an authority in any way but are you capable of deadlifting without back rounding at lower weights? Say 225 or something.
Yep. The rounding starts at about 295.
Just went to the gym today to try some new things out. Did SLDLs (bar touching ground) for 5x5 at 135, and my lower back really started burning towards the end. It wasnt painful, it just felt like it was burning, like the feeling you get in your calves from long distance running. From what I understand the bar is supposed to be directly under the shoulders as opposed to close to the body in a sldl. My back definitely rounded at the bottom part of the lift and I’m guessing that’s where the burning sensations coming from. Is that normal?
Take my advice with a grain of salt but I think you should just rework your deadlift from the ground up. I deadlift less than you nowadays but even on my worse day, I know for a fact that I can do as much 135lbs SLDLs as I want without feeling much, if any, lower back soreness.
Basically just deadlift a lighter weight and do it without rounding your back. Get good at that, add a little weight and continue. It ain’t rocket science.
I’m guessing this is what @chris_ottawa means when he talks about the “obvious solution”.
Yes I’m aware of what Chris was implying. I have definitely thought about that and still might do it. That would be more of a last resort for me. If there is a glaring weakness that can be strengthened then I feel that it would be much more efficient to hit that area hard and remove that weakness.
One thing I could try is very high volume at lighter weights focusing on keeping my back straight at all times. Something like 10setsx3reps with 245-275 focusing on bracing hard and keeping the back straight, 2x per week.
Don’t keep lifting past the point of technique breakdown - EVER.
All the assistance and special exercises in the world won’t help if you keep reinforcing fucked up patterns.
Find someone locally who knows what they’re doing to observe you in person.
Exactly. Instead of pushing the limits of what you can lift, push the limits of what you can lift with perfect technique. Use higher rep accessory lifts to build muscle.
There is a glaring weakness. It is your technique.
Get the good morning up to 80% of your squat and watch what happens. Just go slowly and pay serious attention to form or you can get seriously fucked up.
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Hamstrings are tight and weak. Do stiff legs with the weight on blocks so you dont round. And lower as your hams get stronger.
Here’s the problem with the “train the lift only with good form” technique.
For example if your glutes, back, abs, and quads can handle 500 lbs, but your hamstrings can handle 400, how much will you squat - 400. If you continue to train only the squat the strong points will eventually stop getting stronger, and the weak point will always be weaker. This is the theory behind conjugate training.
These weak points need to be addressed. The trick is in identifying them and sometimes its not easy. Its almost impossible to figure this stuff out based on forum responses.
@jbackos, I don’t know if we’re watching the same thing but it sure as hell seems like a technique(which includes set up) issue.
Isn’t that the point of assistance work? To bring up lacking muscle groups if there is a need for it? I don’t see how targeting weaknesses is unique to conjugate.
Isn’t that pretty much how all strength programs work in general? Do something(such as a main lift) to get you strong and do the necessary assistance work to assist you in getting better(bringing up lagging muscles or building muscle mass in general in the case of hypertrophy) at the main lift ‘aka’ get you strong(er at the main lift).