T Nation

Deadlift/Squat Workout Eval

Powerlifting
#1

All,

It’s me, asking for help again. As mentioned before my deadlift is super sad and my squat is weak too. I’m trying to fix this. I did a workout tonight with the idea it will help both. I’m asking anyone who is willing to look at it and give me their opinion.

Basically I am trying to do a squat workout that also covers the deadlift, using the idea of the “no deadlift, deadlift program”, Any help is appreciated.

Squat
135 2rep (warmup)
225 2rep (warmup)
315lbs 3X3

Rack pull*
225 3rep
315 2rep
225 3rep

*I’m not 100% of my technique, I will be looking into this later. Basically, I did a dealift from the safety bars on the squat rack at about knee height

Good Mornings
135 3rep
185 2X3

Reverse Hype**
3X3 assisted bodyweight

**I was using a back hyper extension setup that I had adjusted so my knees where resting on the pad. With my adjustment the whole thing was basically at about 30 degree angle up from parallel to the ground.

Seated Calf Raise
180 2X6

Anyway, that was the workout. Again, I was trying to cover squat and deadlift. Please let me know your opinion. Thanks for anything and everything.

Starkmann

#2

[quote]starkmann wrote:

Squat
135 2rep (warmup)
225 2rep (warmup)
315lbs 3X3

[/quote]

What is your max squat? Maybe take some more “warm-up” sets, to get a better feel of how to squat.

Try: 135X5X2, 185X3, 225X3, 275X2, then 315X3X3, that way you will prepare the CNS more and have more opportunity to work on your form with lighter weights.

If you can do 315 for 2, I would guess 225 for 3 is easy. As such, if your goal is to keep the volume low (3x3) you should up the intensity (% of 1rm not percieved feeling of exertion). You dont have to train till failure, but you should be training HEAVY.

This doesn’t seem like a lot of volume for your posterior chain. Maybe pick one or the other and focus on it for the workout, with a set/rep scheme of 4-5X5-12. Just a thought.

#3

Personally I like to keep it simple, usually I train “Westside” style but when training “normal”, for a Squat/DL w/o I would do only Squat, ass to floor, no halfassed quarterstuff and Romanian Deadlift. 5-8 worksets per exersice and 2-6 reps per set. After a few weeks I would change exersices. Frontsquat and Good Morning or something similar.

That’s what I do, Keep it simple.

Sometimes it’s fun to do a lot of exercises but I think resultswise we’re better of this way.

#4

[quote]Mr. Moose wrote:
Personally I like to keep it simple,… for a Squat/DL w/o I would do only Squat, ass to floor, no halfassed quarterstuff …[/quote]

This brings up something that has been mentioned countless times on this website but I’m gonna mention it again anyway. I feel posting squat poundages, reps, sets, routines, etc. without mentioning how deep you squat is all but meaningless. There is a huge difference between what one can quarter-squat and what one can ass-to-the-floor squat. There is even a significant difference between parallel and ass/grass squats. Even though I workout at home now and for the past two years, I distinctly remember my “fitness club” days and watching (and shaking my head at) the big time wannabe “heavy squatters” racking up the plates on the bar and then doing all that “half-assed quarter stuff”. I imagine they yakked with their buds and related their numbers on the squat but always failed to mention that in all reality their squats were “halfassed” because of the shallow depth in which they were performed.

Whadda ya’ll think?

(Having said all that, let’s face it. Not very many people squat at the “fitness clubs” anyway)

#5

[quote]Tags wrote:
What is your max squat? Maybe take some more “warm-up” sets, to get a better feel of how to squat.

Try: 135X5X2, 185X3, 225X3, 275X2, then 315X3X3, that way you will prepare the CNS more and have more opportunity to work on your form with lighter weights.
[/quote]

My max sqaut is only around 350lbs, it’s weak, I know. I’m trying to put a new emphaisis on squat and deadlift to bring them up.
As far as th warm up I was worried about getting too many reps. Next time I’ll warm up longer and see how it feels.

[quote]Tags wrote
If you can do 315 for 2, I would guess 225 for 3 is easy. As such, if your goal is to keep the volume low (3x3) you should up the intensity (% of 1rm not percieved feeling of exertion). You dont have to train till failure, but you should be training HEAVY.
[/quote]

you’re right 225 was a little too light. This was the frst time I ever did this exercise so I was kinda guessing at the weight. Next time I will probably go with 275 and see how that goes.

[quote]Tags wrote
This doesn’t seem like a lot of volume for your posterior chain. Maybe pick one or the other and focus on it for the workout, with a set/rep scheme of 4-5X5-12. Just a thought.[/quote]

So I should go up here? I guess I ws trying to keep reps low because I thought that was what I was going for. I’ll give it a shot. What does 4-5X5-12 mean for a set rps scheme?

Thanks

Starkmann

#6

Mr. Moose,

Fewer exercises is a good idea. I’m very new to all this so I am making some very newbie mistakes. I was trying to come up with exercises to cover all the links in the chain.
Next time I will try to kleep it more simle.

Starkmann

#7

[quote]throttle132 wrote:
This brings up something that has been mentioned countless times on this website but I’m gonna mention it again anyway. I feel posting squat poundages, reps, sets, routines, etc. without mentioning how deep you squat is all but meaningless. There is a huge difference between what one can quarter-squat and what one can ass-to-the-floor squat. [/quote]

Fair enough. My goal was ass to the grass squats…but…When I got all 330 pounds loaded I was finding it really tough to get down there. I was still trying to get low, but without the benefit of a spotter or mirror to confirm I would say I was just barely breaking parallel.

Thanks

Starkmann

#8

Seems to me that the more weight you load on the bar, the EASIER it is to get down. The hard part is getting back up :wink:

If you’re goal is getting your poundages up for powerlifting of some kind, all you have to do is break parallel so no problem training like that. If you are just seeking muscle growth use a little less weight and get the full ROM, IMO.

#9

Well, it is easy to get the weight down. I get that feeling in my legs that I’m earning a one way ticket.

I tend to train for beyond parallel because I figure if I do short change my ROM I’ll still get to parallel. I figure If I train only to parallel then I’m gonna end up shorting myself on lift and/or let my form slip and end up with a half squat instead.

Starkmann

#10

go with the 9 week beginner program at elitefts

they try to work the weak points so they don’t have to do any pulling but as someone else said, I would do romanians. Also, your volume might be too low and also, instead of a DE day, try a repetition day.

#11

[quote]j23t wrote:
go with the 9 week beginner program at elitefts
[/quote]

Stupid question: that is the manual you can buy titled Beginner Training Manual. I don’t mind buying stuff to help me out, I just want to make sure I am getting to right thing.

Starkmann

#12

More stupid question for the eliteFTs manual. Do I need to get any bands or anything to use that manual correctly?

Starkmann

#13

[quote]starkmann wrote:
j23t wrote:
go with the 9 week beginner program at elitefts

Stupid question: that is the manual you can buy titled Beginner Training Manual. I don’t mind buying stuff to help me out, I just want to make sure I am getting to right thing.

Starkmann[/quote]

Its free…its just a template for a beginner to their style of training. You don’t have to follow it exactly, but you do have to understand what your weaknesses may be.

elitefts.com/documents/9week-training-program.htm

Take some time to go to their website and read some articles. they have really good info.

or,

westside-barbell.com, louie has some articles as well.

Again, I wouldn’t worry about the bands or chains now. Its too early. Develop a great base of strength, and you sould use the repetition method in place of the DE method for now and when you are stronger switch over.

#14

[quote]starkmann wrote:
j23t wrote:
go with the 9 week beginner program at elitefts

Stupid question: that is the manual you can buy titled Beginner Training Manual. I don’t mind buying stuff to help me out, I just want to make sure I am getting to right thing.

Starkmann[/quote]

Actually, you can find the 9 week program at www.elitefts.com/documents/9week-training-program.htm

I use this basic template. Brought my bench up to 335 and squat to 455.

Also, read everything else on that site.

Good luck

-folly

#15

[quote]folly wrote:
j23t wrote:

I use this basic template. Brought my bench up to 335 and squat to 455.

Also, read everything else on that site.

Good luck

-folly[/quote]

j23t & folly,

Thanks for the link…that’s just the kind of think I was looking for on that site but I must have missed it.

Folly, it brought them up to that point from where? Also, I’m sending you a PM…

Matthew

#16

Many thanks. I’ll get cracking on those.

Starkmann

#17

Before we started I had squatted 415, but it wasn’t parallel. Bench was a shaky 265. I still need work on the bottom end on bench, and I have a sticking point just above parallel on the squat. One thing this program will do is let you know where you are weak.

[quote]Matthew9v9 wrote:

j23t & folly,

Thanks for the link…that’s just the kind of think I was looking for on that site but I must have missed it.

Folly, it brought them up to that point from where? Also, I’m sending you a PM…

Matthew[/quote]

#18

I would definitely recommend checking out Dave Tate’s articles here. I think his squat article is called “Squatting from Head to Toe,” and his DL article is called “The Dead Zone.” He has a bunch of awesome articles here and on elitefts.

If you are serious about improving max strength, especially in squat/bench/dead, you can’t read enough Dave Tate.

#19

What I mean is either pick one exercise or the other and focus on it more for 4-5 sets of 5-12 reps, instead of doing a few sets at lower reps for 2 exercises.

The best advice for you would be to pick a few exercises, and stick to them for a pre-determined time. So, if you want to do squats 3x3, rack pulls 3x3, then reverse hypers 5x12, and lastly lying leg raises 5x12, as a main squat/dead workout, do it and STICK TO IT for some time then switch it up. Consistency is key.

Best of luck,