I should use cleans+lots of high pulls for speed work. Keep on doing heavy squats and use one day for speed pull work.
[quote]Kerley wrote:
xivb4m wrote:
i can DL 405…i know this might be a stupid question but how much could I sumo Stance?
The reason i am asking this is because my 315 is just as slow off the floor as my 405…
you will pull more in the sumo position, how much is hard to say every ones diferent.[/quote]
Do you actually know anything, or do you just repeat what you read??
Now now…no need to hate on each other… Appreciate all the input fellas.
[quote]xivb4m wrote:
Now now…no need to hate on each other… Appreciate all the input fellas.[/quote]
When someone’s talking complete and utter crap, it should be noted!!
FWIW, the guy i train with swears by speed pulls and he’s probably gonna pull 575 at 165 this month as a junior!
I can only speak from personal experience but stuff that worked for me are:
-speed pulls-50%-65%@1RM
-zero pulls(deficet Pulls)standing on block,platform etc…bar on top of toes
-Power cleans seem to help me feel what firing quickly should feel like…
-pause btm squats(high bar)
-most important for me was my setup to the bar…remembering to tighten lats,tri’s,and put tons of tension on the bar.If you see Andy Bolton pull you’ll see what I’m talking bout he does a rocking motion before he pulls and you can see the bar flexing each time…
I do this also just not with the rocking…I believe its called taking the slack out of the bar and getting a sort of stretch reflex out of your muscles(dont quote me on the last part)
I don’t think I gained much off the floor from Olympic lifts because the loading was submaximal and I wasn’t that great at them. Is a 220 clean gonna contribute much to a 400+ deadlift?
I think my floor strength has increased with my Front Squat. I’ve been leg pressing one work set a week lately and I think it’s helped as well
I’ve also found I am significantly stronger with an explosive, dynamic start than going down to the bar and setting up and pulling. Like 20+ pounds difference for me.
My sumo has contributed much more to my lockout which makes no sense at all but w/e. My sumo/conventional numbers make no sense at all. Could be related to a dropoff in strength or something, not sweating it currently.
I’m interested in trying DE movements like box squats and speed pulls and GM because my lockout is definitely a lot stronger than my floor strength right now.
Speed pulls sound like they will be most beneficial, as well as watching my tech more…remembering to fire the LB before upper when starting the pull.
I also did pulls from a deficit today only about 4’’ (Two plates stacked) with 375 n i felt a huge difference in the way my hamstrings responded.
Here are my tips for improved off the floor strength.
I pretty weak as the most i have done in competition is 220kg conventional (raw) and 240kg sumo.
What helped me get faster off the floor and improved my leg drive were following strategies:
-
Zercher pin pulls for triples.
(I couldn’t keep my tension in the core area, collapsed on heavy pulls and stiff legged everything). -
Single cycle off a small deficit (1 inch).
The Simmons singles cycle works really well for this.
I Don’t believe in pulling from large deficits. It changes the movement mechanics too much and may not have much transfer to the competitive lift. A small deficit teaches you to get in a better position and use your leg drive in a specific manner. This will carry over well to your competitive lift, without fucking up your form (it will probably improve your form). -
Deadlift stance Anderson squats (high bar).
Learn how to apply force quickly while maintaining the arch(stability) in this exercise, and it will transfer nicely to your deadlift. -
Speed pulls. Key here is to get ULTRA strict on your form. Push through your heels. Never stiffleg it. Keep a perfect arch and tension. Never sacrifice form for speed. If you are sticking a little bit off the floor when doing this, you are hitting your weak spot. If you are compromising technique to get it quickly off the floor you are simply reinforcing bad technique and faulty motor patterns. Bands added to speed pulls are a godsend. Learn how to cycle band use on speed pulls and you will get REALLY fast.
Ohh for sumo my list goes:
-
Wide stance box squat 5rm’s
In my Sumo stance. Mostly high bar. -
Speed pulls, speed pulls speed pulls.
-
Suit technique.
I have set up my technique so that it takes a little away from my bottom end strength, but puts me in a better position to keep my arch and use the suit pop to help me get out of the hole.
I ALWAYS use “gear technique” when lifting raw. This way my raw training in the competitive lifts carries over to Geared bottom end strength. This is IMO really important!
How high do you set the pins for those Zercher pulls? Right now I’m doing Anderson Zercher squats off the bottom of the squat rack (I don’t have a power rack at the moment). I imagine they’ll end up helping me quite a bit off the floor.
[quote]xivb4m wrote:
Speed pulls sound like they will be most beneficial, as well as watching my tech more…remembering to fire the LB before upper when starting the pull.
I also did pulls from a deficit today only about 4’’ (Two plates stacked) with 375 n i felt a huge difference in the way my hamstrings responded.[/quote]
The whole keys for most people is:
-Technique/setup.
-Firing glutes from the get go.
-Staying tight in the core.
If you focus on using the lower back and hamstrings to pull, you will invariably lift your ass. A stifflegged deadlift puts more stress on your hams and erector = if you focus on using these muscles you will stiffleg it!
[quote]wfifer wrote:
How high do you set the pins for those Zercher pulls? Right now I’m doing Anderson Zercher squats off the bottom of the squat rack (I don’t have a power rack at the moment). I imagine they’ll end up helping me quite a bit off the floor. [/quote]
Well I just set them at around my deadlift starting position.
What I am calling Zercher pin pills is probably the same as you are calling Anderson Zercher squats.
Just try to mimic your pulling style and you will IMO be fine.
I must stress that I believe in starting light and adding weight gradually every week. You can always make the lighter weeks count by really tensing hard and exploding off the pins. The whole point here is to learn how to stay upright by keeping your core tight, so no slouching/stifflegging it up.
Exercise recommendations are a bit tricky. It is highly individual what works and what doesn’t. Even with similar weaknesses. Trial and error is the only way of figuring out what will work for you right now.
Pulling from a deficit.
Box back and front squats
Pulling against bands
“Pushing” the feet through the floor
This is the deal. Low back, hamstrings and gluetes help you get the bar off the floor. When those are strong your pull is strong and steady. Hip position matters but is relative to the lifters build in my opinion. Also, I am not a huge fan of SUMO deads. Its a very technical lift. Lifters with strong hips and legs are good at sumo even if they’re back strength isnt the greatest.
I have seen many lifters switch to sumo style during their training with great success until they get around 90%, then most of them switch back to conventional and pull the same as they were sumo or more. In my opninion this is because low back strength is so important in a max. Sumo or a modified sumo does work for some lifters though. Ricky Dale Crain and Jon Inzer both pulled with a narrow sumo I believe.
Exercises that help your dead from the floor are:
Good mornings
block pulls(lifting off of a plate or a board, not more than 2 inches)
speed deads can help
narrow box squat.
The secret for me was hamstrings. I had attempted 600 in a meet 4 times and missed every time. Once I strengthened them I finally pulled it. It was a huge sense of accomplishment not only because its a milestone lift, but also because I worked so hard in figuring out what my weakness was.
Lots of good advice has been given.
I just want to echo the front squats.
Whenever I miss a front squat session and go in and try to deadlift, I always feel a loss of leg drive. Getting my front squat up has helped my deadlift tremendously.
Also, simply deadlifting more, and with enough volume has helped, too.
Deficet Pulls and Speed Pulls really helped for me