T Nation

Deadlift ROM.

OK,generally speaking,large or ‘full’ ROM is preferred over a shorter one,because then strength develops more widely and the greater stretch is good for hypetrophy purposes,I guess.

So why not always deadlift from the biggest deficit possible,and wide grip? I suppose a competitor would want to work one’s normal lift but how about everyone else.
The normal deadlift only works the back and legs through a short range of motion,definitely not their entire range. There is good morning for that but a really deep deadlift does pretty much the same,except it works the quads.

Yes? Wrong?

well, full range (not excessive) of motion is great, but what you’re comparing it to is like doing partials on a benchpress, or squat or anything else…more load is used with partials…so do both, both are good, just different

(*note, i suppose partials are also used to stress specific muscles…since this is a deadlift, its unlikely too many people will try to use it as an isolation exercise, but i figured i should cover all bases)

There’s really no reason you couldn’t do something like that, except the motor learning from doing the actual competition lift, and variety is good.

Thanks+bumb. Most of the world mostly does ‘partial’ deadlifts. Is not this a potential issue? More opinions needed.

Let me ask you this…have you ever tried doing something like snatch grip deads off of a 6 inch box? Someone with a 400+ lb pull is going to have issues working with 225 on this exercise simply because of the fact that the range of motion is so insanely long and the body starts in a very disadvantaged position.

Maybe as an assistance type exercise every now and then, but I dont see much merit in doing a lift that makes what should be speed weight for your competition lift (this is strength sports, after all guys) feel like max effort weight as a primary means of increasing your competition lift.

Besides, if you really wanted to overload the muscles involved in pulling, there are countless box squat variations that would do a measurably better job than ridiculous deficit snatch deads.

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Let me ask you this…have you ever tried doing something like snatch grip deads off of a 6 inch box? [/quote]

I can’t imagine that most people would even have the flexibility to even get into that position.

Box squats won’t get you yoked. :stuck_out_tongue:

[quote]buckeye girl wrote:
Stronghold wrote:
Let me ask you this…have you ever tried doing something like snatch grip deads off of a 6 inch box?

I can’t imagine that most people would even have the flexibility to even get into that position. So i guess the answer to that would be no.

Besides, if you really wanted to overload the muscles involved in pulling, there are countless box squat variations that would do a measurably better job than ridiculous deficit snatch deads.

Box squats won’t get you yoked. :P[/quote]

Now listen, Iv about had it with your attitude :stuck_out_tongue:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
buckeye girl wrote:
Stronghold wrote:
Let me ask you this…have you ever tried doing something like snatch grip deads off of a 6 inch box?

I can’t imagine that most people would even have the flexibility to even get into that position. So i guess the answer to that would be no.

Besides, if you really wanted to overload the muscles involved in pulling, there are countless box squat variations that would do a measurably better job than ridiculous deficit snatch deads.

Box squats won’t get you yoked. :stuck_out_tongue:

Now listen, Iv about had it with your attitude :p[/quote]

Oh really? What are you going to do about it??

[quote]buckeye girl wrote:
Stronghold wrote:
buckeye girl wrote:
Stronghold wrote:
Let me ask you this…have you ever tried doing something like snatch grip deads off of a 6 inch box?

I can’t imagine that most people would even have the flexibility to even get into that position. So i guess the answer to that would be no.

Besides, if you really wanted to overload the muscles involved in pulling, there are countless box squat variations that would do a measurably better job than ridiculous deficit snatch deads.

Box squats won’t get you yoked. :stuck_out_tongue:

Now listen, Iv about had it with your attitude :stuck_out_tongue:

Oh really? What are you going to do about it??

[/quote]

I guess youll find out thursday, huh?

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
Let me ask you this…have you ever tried doing something like snatch grip deads off of a 6 inch box? Someone with a 400+ lb pull is going to have issues working with 225 on this exercise simply because of the fact that the range of motion is so insanely long and the body starts in a very disadvantaged position.

Maybe as an assistance type exercise every now and then, but I dont see much merit in doing a lift that makes what should be speed weight for your competition lift (this is strenth sports, after all guys) feel like max effort weight as a primary means of increasing your competition lift.

Besides, if you really wanted to overload the muscles involved in pulling, there are countless box squat variations that would do a measurably better job than ridiculous deficit snatch deads.[/quote]

So I get your basic argument is that it’s hard. OK,it’s hard but I think I presented reasonable arguments for why it’s a decent idea,if you don’t find it that hard.

As for small weight being heavy,I’m not sure if that matters. I thought the contraction was the most important thing,not the weight on the bar. Would not calling that useless be like saying that you should always jerk rather than military press because you can use more weight that way?

Or perform all of your bench with the most intense leg drive and arch and generally maximizing leverages,when far smaller weight would have done the job of developing the muscles in that range of motion?

I’m pretty sure that hitting that,say 400 for the first time with that big ROM and challenging leverages would be far more satisfying than a regular lift.

I have done snatch grip deads from a 6 inch pile of rugs,which are so positioned that I have to start the lift from a row position,bar farther away. My single leg max is nearing 180lbs. Biggest plates on the bar are 22 pounds.

[quote]Alffi wrote:
As for small weight being heavy,I’m not sure if that matters. I thought the contraction was the most important thing, not the weight on the bar.[/quote]

Yeah. Tell that to a competitive powerlifter…

This is the Strength Sports forum. Not the “make up silly and impractical lifts and preach about how awesome they are” forum.

I don’t believe Stronghold’s argument was that they are hard, but that there are many other effective exercises that will improve your deadlift.

Also, from the way you described your setup, it sounds like you are forced into an awkward starting position. The bar should be close to your shins, your hips should be down, chest up, and you should be driving through your heels.

If the bar is way out in front of you and at a deficit I don’t see how it would be possible to reach the bar and still keep your chest high and your weight on your heels. Why would you want to try to improve your deadlift with an exercise that puts you in the wrong starting position?

[quote]Alffi wrote:

So I get your basic argument is that it’s hard. OK,it’s hard but I think I presented reasonable arguments for why it’s a decent idea,if you don’t find it that hard.
[/quote]

You don’t get my basic argument. My basic argument is that its impractical.

[quote]Alffi wrote:
As for small weight being heavy,I’m not sure if that matters. I thought the contraction was the most important thing,not the weight on the bar. Would not calling that useless be like saying that you should always jerk rather than military press because you can use more weight that way?
[/quote]

Look at the top of this forum. See what it says? Strength Sports. Weight on the bar > contraction

My argument is relative to powerlifting. Im not the one talking in absolutes here, you are. If you want to get good at ridiculous deficit snatch deads, then do them by all means. If you want to get better at pulling from the floor, then there are far better tools that can be used to accomplish this.

[quote]Alffi wrote:
Or perform all of your bench with the most intense leg drive and arch and generally maximizing leverages,when far smaller weight would have done the job of developing the muscles in that range of motion?
[/quote]

If you are a powerlifter whose goal is to bench press as much as possible while maximizing leverages and leg drive then yeah, this sounds about right.

If your main goal is “developing the muscles” then there are still better exercises for this and you are probably posting in the wrong forum to begin with.

[quote]Alffi wrote:
I’m pretty sure that hitting that,say 400 for the first time with that big ROM and challenging leverages would be far more satisfying than a regular lift.
[/quote]

Are you now? Personally, I dont give two shits how much I can circus deadlift. Im not doing that in my meet, and Im more likely to get injured trying to get a big circus deadlift than I am training other lifts in order to improve my pull. You agree with me that the positioning at the bottom of that lift is incredibly disadvantaged.

Most people lack the flexibility to deadlift from the floor properly, let alone from a 6 inch block with a wide grip. So now we are going to spend time working on people’s flexibility so that they can train a lift with marginal (at best) carryover to their goals when there are far faster and more effective routes to achieving that goal? Like I said earlier, its impractical.

[quote]Alffi wrote:
I have done snatch grip deads from a 6 inch pile of rugs,which are so positioned that I have to start the lift from a row position,bar farther away. My single leg max is nearing 180lbs. Biggest plates on the bar are 22 pounds.
[/quote]

Want a cookie? Thats impressive and all, but I fail to see how that relates to the fact that if your goal was to increase your pull from the floor, you could have made much greater progress by pursuing other lifts instead of your circus and one-legged deadlifts.

That Buckeye Girl is pretty smart…Id like to rattle her cage :wink:

[quote]Alffi wrote:
OK,generally speaking,large or ‘full’ ROM is preferred over a shorter one,because then strength develops more widely and the greater stretch is good for hypetrophy purposes,I guess.

So why not always deadlift from the biggest deficit possible,and wide grip? I suppose a competitor would want to work one’s normal lift but how about everyone else.
The normal deadlift only works the back and legs through a short range of motion,definitely not their entire range. There is good morning for that but a really deep deadlift does pretty much the same,except it works the quads.

Yes? Wrong?[/quote]

Where did you read that bodybuilders don’t adjust their deadlift technique to various ROM?

Have you never seen a pro bodybuilder deadlift off a platform before?
Depending on the muscle they are working they may or may not use a snatch grip. Here on T-Nation they call it snatch grip, however wide grip deadlifts on a platform wasn’t invented when it was first mentioned here.

You really shouldn’t generalize what type of training people do, unless you’ve been around several pro-bodybuilders and never seen any of them do this?

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
That Buckeye Girl is pretty smart…Id like to rattle her cage :wink:
[/quote]

Don’t be making statements like that unless you plan to follow through.

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
Alffi wrote:
OK,generally speaking,large or ‘full’ ROM is preferred over a shorter one,because then strength develops more widely and the greater stretch is good for hypetrophy purposes,I guess.

So why not always deadlift from the biggest deficit possible,and wide grip? I suppose a competitor would want to work one’s normal lift but how about everyone else.
The normal deadlift only works the back and legs through a short range of motion,definitely not their entire range. There is good morning for that but a really deep deadlift does pretty much the same,except it works the quads.

Yes? Wrong?

Where did you read that bodybuilders don’t adjust their deadlift technique to various ROM?

Have you never seen a pro bodybuilder deadlift off a platform before?
Depending on the muscle they are working they may or may not use a snatch grip. Here on T-Nation they call it snatch grip, however wide grip deadlifts on a platform wasn’t invented when it was first mentioned here.
You really shouldn’t generalize what type of training people do, unless you’ve been around several pro-bodybuilders and never seen any of them do this?[/quote]

I did not mean to come off as saying that nobody does but was more like wondering why not do it more. You squat low,so why not deadlift low etc.

[quote]buckeye girl wrote:
Stronghold wrote:
That Buckeye Girl is pretty smart…Id like to rattle her cage :wink:

Don’t be making statements like that unless you plan to follow through.[/quote]

I ALWAYS follow through my dear.

[quote]
Look at the top of this forum. See what it says? Strength Sports. Weight on the bar > contraction[/quote]
If lesser weight feels heavy,then it’s enough weight.

I specifically said that for a competitor (in PL) the situation may be different but for anyone else who simply wants to get strong in the regular dead ROM AND MORE,then increasing the range would help. Maybe comparing to rack pulls would have been a better analogy.

And I’m talking about training. What’s the use of maximizing leverage and piling up tons of weight when you could be using far less weight (wasting less time and chance of injury) and still developing just the same,or better? In training,that is.

You don’t squat low in competition either but you do squat low in training,right?

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
buckeye girl wrote:
Stronghold wrote:
That Buckeye Girl is pretty smart…Id like to rattle her cage :wink:

Don’t be making statements like that unless you plan to follow through.

I ALWAYS follow through my dear.[/quote]

Wait. Always follow through? Like always lockout deadlifts? That requires some powerful hips.

[quote]Alffi wrote:
You don’t squat low in competition either but you do squat low in training,right?

[/quote]
I think the correct answer to that is…Powerlifters put it deeper in the hole.

I’m pretty sure Stronghold can tell you all about that.