Deadlift is a Press?

[quote]AmericanOutlaw13 wrote:
“By the way, a deadlift is not a pull; it’s the same movement as a leg press except you’re using your hands to hold the weight. So the deadlift is a press.” - Christian Thibaudeau

Can someone clarify this for me?

I have done a leg press and many a deadlift, the movements, for me at least, are completely different.[/quote]

There are somethings that are hard to describe in words. The difference in how they “feel” is more subjective.

However, technically, what he’s saying is true. The hip angle is pretty much the same, and the action at the knee is pretty much the same.

They do have a different effect on the body, with the deadlift affecting far more muscle mass.

But like someone above asked, Does this matter? Other than for talking shop, it doesn’t matter much, as long as you use these exercises appropriately.

I’ve often wondered why some consider the deadlift a hip dominant exercise when there is considerable quad work and extension and flexion at the knee going on, especially for those who use a narrow stance or use the snatch grip deadlift.

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]giterdone wrote:

[quote]Blaze_108 wrote:

However, generally the legs are fully extended by the time the weight is a few inches off the ground.

[/quote]

If your legs are fully extended after a few inches, then you are basically describing a stiff-leg DL. No doubt the back is involved but the legs give you the power.

[/quote]

Damn, 859 with a double overhand grip! Those are some strong hands (not to mention the rest of him).[/quote]

I’ve always considered him one of the best deadlifters ever, especially because of the double overhand hook grip.

I use the hook grip too; I never liked the alternate grip.

[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:
OP: try to deadlift without pushing (pressing) against the ground. Why is this hard to understand? I’m borderline retarded and get it (not really, but come on man). [/quote]

I know your legs press, Ive always considered it just as much of a pull as press. But my ass moves (hips shooting through at the top), thus making it different from a leg press where your ass/back are stable against a seat.

[quote]AmericanOutlaw13 wrote:

[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:
OP: try to deadlift without pushing (pressing) against the ground. Why is this hard to understand? I’m borderline retarded and get it (not really, but come on man). [/quote]

I know your legs press, Ive always considered it just as much of a pull as press. But my ass moves (hips shooting through at the top), thus making it different from a leg press where your ass/back are stable against a seat.[/quote]

Press? Pull? who gives a shit?

I think of the deadlift as a leg kick-back.

I looked for it but can’t find it, but Steve Michalik goes into detail about this in “Atomic Fitness” explaining how all excercises are pulls mechanically. Every movement your body makes is a result of a muscle/s pulling on bones. Our muscles don’t “push” anything. There is a free google book for Atomic Fitness if interested.

[quote]thogue wrote:
Unlike a push, like a squat - where you are moving the weight away from your body. (hopefully)[/quote]

what?

lol… well, would you consider the squat to be pulling the weight towards your body? It is not as obvious as a bench press but I think it is definitely pushing the weight away from you.

In the Deadlift Your legs are the primary movers…hence why the Deadlift is more of a press than a pull.

maybe it’s also to do with the mechanics, extension = push, while flexion = pull, to me anyway

This is maddening.
The reason it matters is because questioning, analyzing, researching and testing are how we continue to make advancements that allow for bigger stronger faster athletes and average joes. If you are to stupid to realize that without people asking why is that? on a regular basis, we would all still be using nautilus machines, or doing incline, flat and decline benches every week.

The people that ask why? are those who truly want to grow physically and mentally, and also the people whose minds and bodies will still be there long after the meatheads have bowed out to live out life on the couch drinking MGD. Stop trying to be the full of shit wannabe tough guy that tries to act like anything even remotely intellectual diminishes from his manliness

i.e. the dl should not have a shrug at the top, and the scapular retraction should be there the whole lift. The back acts as stabilizers not pullers in the DL. Stabilizing is their main function anyways, which is my theory as to why backs respond so well to them.

[quote]SILVERDAN7 wrote:
This is maddening.
The reason it matters is because questioning, analyzing, researching and testing are how we continue to make advancements that allow for bigger stronger faster athletes and average joes. If you are to stupid to realize that without people asking why is that? on a regular basis, we would all still be using nautilus machines, or doing incline, flat and decline benches every week.

The people that ask why? are those who truly want to grow physically and mentally, and also the people whose minds and bodies will still be there long after the meatheads have bowed out to live out life on the couch drinking MGD. Stop trying to be the full of shit wannabe tough guy that tries to act like anything even remotely intellectual diminishes from his manliness

i.e. the dl should not have a shrug at the top, and the scapular retraction should be there the whole lift. The back acts as stabilizers not pullers in the DL. Stabilizing is their main function anyways, which is my theory as to why backs respond so well to them.[/quote]

Assigning labels isn’t intellectual.

I don’t give a fuck if Thibs thinks the deadlift is a press. I know that deadlifts will make me sore in my hamstrings, spinal erectors and lats and I know that I’ll be weaker if I deadlift with sore quads. I’ll also become pretty “mentally drained”.

If I only thought: “Deads is lower body pressing, I’ll put that between upper body pressing and upper body pulling”, my planning wouldn’t take the above into consideration and I’d either be deadlifting with a sore upper back or rowing with sore spinal erectors, lats and hamstrings.

Labeling them didn’t help at all. I had to actually train and think to form a good plan.

Deadlift is totally a press. Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m going to get some rope and press my car out of the ditch I left it in on Thanksgiving Eve.

The way I understood CT was more of a visualizing tool. The barbell is the focal point and you press the world away from your body by extending your legs and glutes/hips until you’re standing straight. A visual cue to keep your back straight and braced for pushing the earth away.

Is CT the mortal incarnation of Atlas? I wonder.

[quote]kakno wrote:

[quote]SILVERDAN7 wrote:
This is maddening.
The reason it matters is because questioning, analyzing, researching and testing are how we continue to make advancements that allow for bigger stronger faster athletes and average joes. If you are to stupid to realize that without people asking why is that? on a regular basis, we would all still be using nautilus machines, or doing incline, flat and decline benches every week.

The people that ask why? are those who truly want to grow physically and mentally, and also the people whose minds and bodies will still be there long after the meatheads have bowed out to live out life on the couch drinking MGD. Stop trying to be the full of shit wannabe tough guy that tries to act like anything even remotely intellectual diminishes from his manliness

i.e. the dl should not have a shrug at the top, and the scapular retraction should be there the whole lift. The back acts as stabilizers not pullers in the DL. Stabilizing is their main function anyways, which is my theory as to why backs respond so well to them.[/quote]

Assigning labels isn’t intellectual.

I don’t give a fuck if Thibs thinks the deadlift is a press. I know that deadlifts will make me sore in my hamstrings, spinal erectors and lats and I know that I’ll be weaker if I deadlift with sore quads. I’ll also become pretty “mentally drained”.

If I only thought: “Deads is lower body pressing, I’ll put that between upper body pressing and upper body pulling”, my planning wouldn’t take the above into consideration and I’d either be deadlifting with a sore upper back or rowing with sore spinal erectors, lats and hamstrings.

Labeling them didn’t help at all. I had to actually train and think to form a good plan.[/quote]

I agree with your phil in regards to training. And while labeling things itself is not that important, it is one of the tools we use to store and translate new information. He feels like he is redefining how we look at training, which means that some of the terms we use in relation to training might need to be redefined. Do we really need to know that he thinks sled pulls are so effecrtrive due to the lack of an eccentric phase, or maaybe that he is laying out his methods to not only be followed, but also learned and spread.
I dont really think it’s that important to label, to learn and grow is. And that will always include the former.
The comment was more towards morons who felt the need to chip in with why it doesnt matter instead of keeping their mouth shut. Fake attempts at being macho irritate me, especially online

Muscles only pull.
Perhaps we loosely say pull for flexion…kness and elbows where press is extension?
Prime mover for deadlift is the legs?? HIPS
You don’t flex bones. You don’t flex muscles. You flex and extend joints. Muscles contract. They shorten

If you consider what the legs, the prime movers for the deadlift, are doing, you’ll notice that they are pushing away from the body. While the sum total of what’s happening results in you pulling the bar closer to yourself, your legs are still pushing.

But eh, whatever. Semantics.

[quote]Blaze_108 wrote:

[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
Does it really matter? [/quote]

Not really, besides the sense that anyone doing a push/pull/legs split has been focusing the pull day around a lift that’s technically a push?[/quote]

This is sarcasm, right?

Where the load is relative to the body is completely irrelevant. If you had a sled behind you attached to some straps, and you were pushing the straps away from you, would you call that a pull just because the sled was moving toward you?

Thib’s argument is that presses are meant to be trained for performance. Since the prime movers are the same in the squat and deadlift (glutes, hams and quads) and they’re doing the same thing (hip extension and knee extension), it’s useful to think of the deadlift as a press.

well, I’ve also heard an interesting point. Do huskies push or pull a sled?

They push it.