T Nation

Deadlift Importance to Oly Lifters?

Mark Rippetoe has written they are essential for increasing the Olympic lifts, but it is well known that most Oly lifters don’t train the deadlift.

why not though? i have always thought there is no better exercise to increase back strength than the deadlift.

and if Oly lifters don’t deadlift, what exercises do they do to train their erectors?

hum I dont think it is to important, well not in the start anyway. I was trainig ol the other day with a coach who evry thuesday let’s people train with him, well not evryone but those he takes a interest in.

anyway, I am 16 and I dont realy do the deadlift anymore, I got a 140kg parallel squat and a 160kg deadlift since earlier and have gotten my sumo deadlift to 150 now. I clean and jerk 95kg with decent technique.

the other day there was a guy that was 17, his deadlift was 200kg and he had better flexibility then me and still only got 80 that day and our technique is similiar.

Will it help? probably
Is it nessesary? no

that’s how I feel about it

AHA! i finally have the answer to something. My OL coach told me not to deadlift and when i asked why he told me “your form on the pulling portion of the clean isn’t perfect, so don’t deadlift because you should focus on getting down your clean form first, then you can deadlift again once your clean is perfect”. His logic was that it would mess up my form since there are some major differences in the two movements.

[quote]Satanicuslupis wrote:
AHA! i finally have the answer to something. My OL coach told me not to deadlift and when i asked why he told me “your form on the pulling portion of the clean isn’t perfect, so don’t deadlift because you should focus on getting down your clean form first, then you can deadlift again once your clean is perfect”. His logic was that it would mess up my form since there are some major differences in the two movements. [/quote]

so why don’t elite weightlifters deadlift?

[quote]FROGGBUSTER wrote:
Satanicuslupis wrote:
AHA! i finally have the answer to something. My OL coach told me not to deadlift and when i asked why he told me “your form on the pulling portion of the clean isn’t perfect, so don’t deadlift because you should focus on getting down your clean form first, then you can deadlift again once your clean is perfect”. His logic was that it would mess up my form since there are some major differences in the two movements.

so why don’t elite weightlifters deadlift?[/quote]

I dont think it is that unusual. I’ve seen atleast 2 videos of it, I dont remember their names tho.

First there is the rusian guy who does 400kg deadlift raw, 150kg muscle snatch, dont know if you’ve seen that clip, if you havent I’ll serach for it, he’s sick.

The other guy was from an ironmind tape but I don’t think they are up anymore

They do a lot of high pulls.

Unless injured or getting back into shape after a long lay-off, weightlifters usually don’t specialize in training a particular muscle group. Also, the closer to a competition, the fewer the number of exercises that are not specific to snatching and clean and jerking. Deadlifts that mimic the pull in the snatch or clean are sometimes performed, although they may be done with the lifter standing on a block in order to strengthen the lats.

High pulls and extensions with weights of 90% intensity or higher are the most common supplementary movements employed to strengthen the muscles involved in the snatch or clean pulling motions.

[quote]FROGGBUSTER wrote:
Satanicuslupis wrote:
AHA! i finally have the answer to something. My OL coach told me not to deadlift and when i asked why he told me “your form on the pulling portion of the clean isn’t perfect, so don’t deadlift because you should focus on getting down your clean form first, then you can deadlift again once your clean is perfect”. His logic was that it would mess up my form since there are some major differences in the two movements.

so why don’t elite weightlifters deadlift?[/quote]

who says they don’t???

Because deadlifting heavy is not the same as pulling in a clean or a snatch. Olympic lifters take stuff from the floor all the time, so they get a lot of posterior chain/back work in. If they need more, they tend to do RDLs as these are more sport specific.

Trying to deadlift heavy normally screws up your pull timing.

[quote]NeoSpartan wrote:
FROGGBUSTER wrote:
Satanicuslupis wrote:
AHA! i finally have the answer to something. My OL coach told me not to deadlift and when i asked why he told me “your form on the pulling portion of the clean isn’t perfect, so don’t deadlift because you should focus on getting down your clean form first, then you can deadlift again once your clean is perfect”. His logic was that it would mess up my form since there are some major differences in the two movements.

so why don’t elite weightlifters deadlift?

who says they don’t???

[/quote]

Teh InTErw3b!!!

Sure why would weighlifters need to deadlift anyway…? It’s not about strength. You don’t have to be strong to be a weightlifter… It’s all technique right?

There’s videos of Kendrick Farris snatch grip deadlifting something stupid like 230kg x5 on youtube with form that is quie different to his first pull.

[quote]Lindow wrote:
FROGGBUSTER wrote:
Satanicuslupis wrote:
AHA! i finally have the answer to something. My OL coach told me not to deadlift and when i asked why he told me “your form on the pulling portion of the clean isn’t perfect, so don’t deadlift because you should focus on getting down your clean form first, then you can deadlift again once your clean is perfect”. His logic was that it would mess up my form since there are some major differences in the two movements.

so why don’t elite weightlifters deadlift?

I dont think it is that unusual. I’ve seen atleast 2 videos of it, I dont remember their names tho.

First there is the rusian guy who does 400kg deadlift raw, 150kg muscle snatch, dont know if you’ve seen that clip, if you havent I’ll serach for it, he’s sick.

The other guy was from an ironmind tape but I don’t think they are up anymore
[/quote]

I think your talking about this.

Mikhail Koklyaev He has a background in olympic lifter but is primarily a strongman though I bet he could podium at the Olympics.

[quote]Kalle wrote:
Lindow wrote:
FROGGBUSTER wrote:
Satanicuslupis wrote:
AHA! i finally have the answer to something. My OL coach told me not to deadlift and when i asked why he told me “your form on the pulling portion of the clean isn’t perfect, so don’t deadlift because you should focus on getting down your clean form first, then you can deadlift again once your clean is perfect”. His logic was that it would mess up my form since there are some major differences in the two movements.

so why don’t elite weightlifters deadlift?

I dont think it is that unusual. I’ve seen atleast 2 videos of it, I dont remember their names tho.

First there is the rusian guy who does 400kg deadlift raw, 150kg muscle snatch, dont know if you’ve seen that clip, if you havent I’ll serach for it, he’s sick.

The other guy was from an ironmind tape but I don’t think they are up anymore

I think your talking about this.

Mikhail Koklyaev He has a background in olympic lifter but is primarily a strongman though I bet he could podium at the Olympics.[/quote]

Didn’t he outlift Klokov at the last Russian national champs…?

[quote]Kalle wrote:
Lindow wrote:
FROGGBUSTER wrote:
Satanicuslupis wrote:
AHA! i finally have the answer to something. My OL coach told me not to deadlift and when i asked why he told me “your form on the pulling portion of the clean isn’t perfect, so don’t deadlift because you should focus on getting down your clean form first, then you can deadlift again once your clean is perfect”. His logic was that it would mess up my form since there are some major differences in the two movements.

so why don’t elite weightlifters deadlift?

I dont think it is that unusual. I’ve seen atleast 2 videos of it, I dont remember their names tho.

First there is the rusian guy who does 400kg deadlift raw, 150kg muscle snatch, dont know if you’ve seen that clip, if you havent I’ll serach for it, he’s sick.

The other guy was from an ironmind tape but I don’t think they are up anymore

I think your talking about this.

Mikhail Koklyaev He has a background in olympic lifter but is primarily a strongman though I bet he could podium at the Olympics.[/quote]

Yeh that’s the one. Doesnt he have the WR in some kind of highland game throw?

I just wish I could see the iron mind tape thing again, does anyone know about it? I think chakarov is doing cleans and snatches with some other guy and more stuff in it, would be interesting to see again

[quote]Hanley wrote:
Kalle wrote:
Lindow wrote:
FROGGBUSTER wrote:
Satanicuslupis wrote:
AHA! i finally have the answer to something. My OL coach told me not to deadlift and when i asked why he told me “your form on the pulling portion of the clean isn’t perfect, so don’t deadlift because you should focus on getting down your clean form first, then you can deadlift again once your clean is perfect”. His logic was that it would mess up my form since there are some major differences in the two movements.

so why don’t elite weightlifters deadlift?

I dont think it is that unusual. I’ve seen atleast 2 videos of it, I dont remember their names tho.

First there is the rusian guy who does 400kg deadlift raw, 150kg muscle snatch, dont know if you’ve seen that clip, if you havent I’ll serach for it, he’s sick.

The other guy was from an ironmind tape but I don’t think they are up anymore

I think your talking about this.

Mikhail Koklyaev He has a background in olympic lifter but is primarily a strongman though I bet he could podium at the Olympics.

Didn’t he outlift Klokov at the last Russian national champs…?[/quote]

I don’t really follow Olympic lifting so anything I got is just from following strongman, but I think he won the Russian champs or at least was very close. Just a few weeks after I think IFSA worlds to so he wasn’t even training specifically for it.

From what I read it is all political why Russia doesn’t send him to the Olympics.

My clean was at 130 4 weeks ago before I started my mesocycle which included deadlifts. I had not deadlifted due to injury in over 2 years and I increased from a 150kg for 6 reps to 180kg for 4 reps easily with central fatigue from the previous days training.

My squat training was aimed at perfecting form and I didn’t increase in strength however, my cleans improved greatly to a 130kg clean for an easy 2 reps. After 4 sets of doubles on the clean i attempted 140kg and just missed it, I reckon I would have got it with another attempt. So in my opinion and from my experience, yes the deadlift helps you with pulls on the clean.

[quote]FROGGBUSTER wrote:
Mark Rippetoe has written they are essential for increasing the Olympic lifts, but it is well known that most Oly lifters don’t train the deadlift.

why not though? i have always thought there is no better exercise to increase back strength than the deadlift.

and if Oly lifters don’t deadlift, what exercises do they do to train their erectors?[/quote]

not to rag on Rippetoe, he has a ton more credentials then I do, but if you look at how every major country has their lifters train, you see hardly any deadlifts. I think Rippetoe is just trying to find new ways to train for OL, and its not really working. You might see some pulls to the knees with heavy weights, or pulls off the blocks heavy (see training of the Polish national team on youtube, their super does some pulls from the blocks w/ 300kg or so!).

the thing with the deadlift is that, its a slow lift, and it trains the muscles to move slowly. Can’t be fast if you lift slow.

Misha trains as an OL, and he did 210/253?? at the russian nationals, which puts him in position to be one of the few people to challenge Reza zadeh at the olympics if he goes.

[quote]romanaz wrote:
FROGGBUSTER wrote:
Mark Rippetoe has written they are essential for increasing the Olympic lifts, but it is well known that most Oly lifters don’t train the deadlift.

why not though? i have always thought there is no better exercise to increase back strength than the deadlift.

and if Oly lifters don’t deadlift, what exercises do they do to train their erectors?

not to rag on Rippetoe, he has a ton more credentials then I do, but if you look at how every major country has their lifters train, you see hardly any deadlifts. I think Rippetoe is just trying to find new ways to train for OL, and its not really working. You might see some pulls to the knees with heavy weights, or pulls off the blocks heavy (see training of the Polish national team on youtube, their super does some pulls from the blocks w/ 300kg or so!).

the thing with the deadlift is that, its a slow lift, and it trains the muscles to move slowly. Can’t be fast if you lift slow.

Misha trains as an OL, and he did 210/253?? at the russian nationals, which puts him in position to be one of the few people to challenge Reza zadeh at the olympics if he goes.

[/quote]

He barley missed the jerk in that lift, he has front squatted 300kg so sure he can clean much more just a technical thing probably with his jerk; that is usually the limiting factor in a lot of oly lifters though. I don’t think he is going though because of political reasons with his country, its a shame also. I don’t think he could have challenged reza much though, but he had some injuries earlier this year so if he isn’t 100% there is a chance.

[quote]romanaz wrote:
the thing with the deadlift is that, its a slow lift, and it trains the muscles to move slowly. Can’t be fast if you lift slow.
[/quote]

i highly doubt this is true.

I just read an article on EliteFTS with Mark Rippetoe and he talked about this exact thing(which is probably where the TC heard it). I’ll show you guys his exact words on them:

"Why do Olympic lifters never do deadlifts? They don�??t do them just because they never have. That doesn�??t mean they shouldn�??t do them! They did do deadlifts at one time though. Do you know when? In the 60s at York when we were actually winning shit. It seems to me that if you have a 600 lb deadlift, your 400 lb clean coming off the floor is going to feel lighter than if you only had a 475 lb deadlift. I only have my Olympic lifters deadlift once every two weeks. If you�??re not strong enough to deadlift quite a bit more than you clean, then you are not strong enough. Period.

I�??ll tell you what I think the deal is. I think that most Olympic lifting coaches fall in love with being able to technically coach the snatch and clean. They forget that at some level the whole thing must involve you being strong too! If you�??re going to be an Olympic lifting coach and you are in love with coaching the snatch and clean and jerk, that�??s real good. But you also need to be able to coach the squat because that is what makes your people stronger. You must also be able to coach the deadlift and have them do the deadlift.

You must also be smart enough to understand that the deadlift is different enough from a clean to where the two movements do not interfere with one another. You pull the deadlift off the floor slowly because the weight is real, real heavy. If you are pulling your clean off the floor as slowly as a heavy deadlift then you are not strong enough. The fact that you�??re pulling the deadlift off the floor slowly is because it is heavy. It also means that if you get good at deadlifting then your clean can come off of the floor faster and easier because it is relatively lighter. "

http://www.elitefts.com/documents/texas_bbq.htm

[quote]confusedjake wrote:
I just read an article on EliteFTS with Mark Rippetoe and he talked about this exact thing(which is probably where the TC heard it). I’ll show you guys his exact words on them:

"Why do Olympic lifters never do deadlifts? They don�??t do them just because they never have. That doesn�??t mean they shouldn�??t do them! They did do deadlifts at one time though. Do you know when? In the 60s at York when we were actually winning shit. It seems to me that if you have a 600 lb deadlift, your 400 lb clean coming off the floor is going to feel lighter than if you only had a 475 lb deadlift. I only have my Olympic lifters deadlift once every two weeks. If you�??re not strong enough to deadlift quite a bit more than you clean, then you are not strong enough. Period.

I�??ll tell you what I think the deal is. I think that most Olympic lifting coaches fall in love with being able to technically coach the snatch and clean. They forget that at some level the whole thing must involve you being strong too! If you�??re going to be an Olympic lifting coach and you are in love with coaching the snatch and clean and jerk, that�??s real good. But you also need to be able to coach the squat because that is what makes your people stronger. You must also be able to coach the deadlift and have them do the deadlift.

You must also be smart enough to understand that the deadlift is different enough from a clean to where the two movements do not interfere with one another. You pull the deadlift off the floor slowly because the weight is real, real heavy. If you are pulling your clean off the floor as slowly as a heavy deadlift then you are not strong enough. The fact that you�??re pulling the deadlift off the floor slowly is because it is heavy. It also means that if you get good at deadlifting then your clean can come off of the floor faster and easier because it is relatively lighter. "

http://www.elitefts.com/documents/texas_bbq.htm
[/quote]

His argumentation doesn’t look very good, IMO.

He implies that specific training couldn’t suffice your strength needs for the two movements. This is not true, as you can see by the training regimes of the leading teams.

I think that because of the different firing patterns of the first pulls for the snatch and clean and DL, deads can lead to wasting of the body’s valuable adaptation resources.
This:
“It also means that if you get good at deadlifting then your clean can come off of the floor faster and easier because it is relatively lighter.”
is way too simplified. And for the very specific sport of weightlifting, it could be wrong.
The specifity to CNS exhaustion coefficient of deads is way lower than that of every traditional exercise used by Oly lifters.

Random thought of mine:
Last two times I broke my power clean PR, it was after sets of heavy squats, but after deads I can’t execute with even 90% of 1RM.

Deadlifting will surely improve the numbers in the two movements for a novice, and maybe for an intermediate, but I don’t think the guys on the top have the luxury of including deads in their training program.