Rippetoe seems to think the shoulders should be over the bar. Tate’s “Dead Zone” article says the shoulders should be behind the bar. This is specific to conventional pulling.
I’ve found that the cue of driving up and pulling back has definitely helped my pull but I can’t say my shoulder position for sure on conventional, only that it is definitely behind the bar sumo. What I am doing currently is largely irrelevant because I’ve been having trouble with my start
Rippetoe and Tate have slightly different objectives in their explanations of the DL setup.
Tate will have you DL max weight and his setup is directed toward that. Rippetoe, as stated in his book, doesn’t care about max weight but is trying to get you overall stronger. That leads to a less optimal, but possibly safer pulling position and the use of a greater amount of muscle tissue. It’s a subtle point and I’m not explaining it very well…
I tend to think that Tate is factoring in the DL or Squat suit and shoulders behind the bar loads the maximum tension into the suit while forcing the bar into the legs. I would guess that practicing that raw makes it easier to do in the suit.
that’s really interesting
do you have any video examples? of someone pulling with shoulders behind? and do you think it’s different for sumo?
makes a LOT of sense
I seem to recall this question was posed directly to Rippetoe on another website. Rippetoe basically states that your scapula will be directly over the bar and the musculature of your shoulder will be in front of the bar. I believe he even had a phone conversation with Tate about it and they were on the same page.
You can’t actually lift the bar off the ground if your shoulders are behind the bar. When the bar comes up off the ground, the weight is going to hang directly below the joint, it’s just a matter of physics.
The only way to have your shoulders behind the bar, would be to have so little weight on the bar that you could do a front delt raise with it. Otherwise, as soon as you apply a force to the bar, it will either pitch your body forward, or roll the bar backwards to initiate the pull. Does this make any sense?