T Nation

Deadlift and Squat Program

Hey :slight_smile:

Any recommendations on a program I can follow that will help get my deadlift and squat numbers up? ( I am not comfortable formatting my own)

My bench is my strongest lift of the 3, would like it to go up too, but its the two above that are lacking and need the most help.

I would also like to keep some iso movements.
I have been lifting for 6 yrs so not a beginner
I dont care for 5/3/1
can lift 4 days per week.

Thanks!

It seems you have the perfect schedule for the Westside routine. IMO maxing weekly is going to bring up your squats and deadlifts the best. I also like what Stan Efferding and Eric Lilliebridge do for squats and deads. One week you max squats and the next you max deads and repeat

Those are both good suggestions. You could also look into Paul Carters strong 15.

There’s the Bulgarian Method.

I had success with this deadlifting and squatting one day a week each. Nice and simple, follow the main lift with standard assistance stuff.

Note: It’s not a very demanding program, but I made great progress using a deflated max to start with, then calculating a new max after the 6th week (you rep out 94% that week) and deflating that as well. If you’re in it for the long haul, something to consider.

I think I will look further into Westside.

I saw some threads on it tho and people were saying how its hard to follow or easy to screw up because of the way it is written or something?
Any thoughts on this?

Is there one preferred template to use?

[quote]coyotegal wrote:
Hey :slight_smile:

Any recommendations on a program I can follow that will help get my deadlift and squat numbers up? ( I am not comfortable formatting my own)
[/quote]
Smolov

Just run the base mesocycle if you want. You won’t be deadlifting, but by far the biggest jump in my deadlift numbers that i’ve ever had came of the heels of Smolov regardless. Also your squat should explode obviously.

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]coyotegal wrote:
Hey :slight_smile:

Any recommendations on a program I can follow that will help get my deadlift and squat numbers up? ( I am not comfortable formatting my own)
[/quote]
Smolov

Just run the base mesocycle if you want. You won’t be deadlifting, but by far the biggest jump in my deadlift numbers that i’ve ever had came of the heels of Smolov regardless. Also your squat should explode obviously.[/quote]

I see how that can happen, but I think if my goal is to enter a PL comp. then I should be deadlifting so that I am used to it. My thoughts anyways.
I know for me, if I dont do a movement for awhile it takes my body a bit to get good at it again.

[quote]coyotegal wrote:

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]coyotegal wrote:
Hey :slight_smile:

Any recommendations on a program I can follow that will help get my deadlift and squat numbers up? ( I am not comfortable formatting my own)
[/quote]
Smolov

Just run the base mesocycle if you want. You won’t be deadlifting, but by far the biggest jump in my deadlift numbers that i’ve ever had came of the heels of Smolov regardless. Also your squat should explode obviously.[/quote]

I see how that can happen, but I think if my goal is to enter a PL comp. then I should be deadlifting so that I am used to it. My thoughts anyways.
I know for me, if I dont do a movement for awhile it takes my body a bit to get good at it again.[/quote]
Ah okay. I didn’t realize you had a meet planned soon. Very cool!

Thanks :slight_smile:

[quote]Mahoney wrote:
It seems you have the perfect schedule for the Westside routine. IMO maxing weekly is going to bring up your squats and deadlifts the best. I also like what Stan Efferding and Eric Lilliebridge do for squats and deads. One week you max squats and the next you max deads and repeat[/quote]
Weren’t you just railing on speed work in another thread? How can it be Westside w/o speed work?

[quote]coyotegal wrote:
I think I will look further into Westside.

I saw some threads on it tho and people were saying how its hard to follow or easy to screw up because of the way it is written or something?
Any thoughts on this?

Is there one preferred template to use?

[/quote]

that link is great info on how to implement westside. its a long read to take your time.

[quote]chobbs wrote:

[quote]Mahoney wrote:
It seems you have the perfect schedule for the Westside routine. IMO maxing weekly is going to bring up your squats and deadlifts the best. I also like what Stan Efferding and Eric Lilliebridge do for squats and deads. One week you max squats and the next you max deads and repeat[/quote]
Weren’t you just railing on speed work in another thread? How can it be Westside w/o speed work?[/quote]

You make it sound like Westside is a routine that only works on speed. I love everything Westside does except speed work. I pretty much do Westside without speed. Instead of speed work I’ll do a 5 rep max on any given exercise. For chest illegal wide, incline, dumbells. For squat/deadlift I’ll do good mornings, still legged deadlifts, high bar squats, box squats. So I use the conjugate method on both the 5 rep max and max day and have had great results. 485 squat, 610 deadlift at 173

So the first question should have been “Have you exhausted the use of a simple linear progression program like Starting Strength or 5x5?”

I don’t know your experience so it may seem naive or insulting, but you’d be surprised by how many poeple limit their progress with more complex programs that have you adding weight much more slowly.

I am sure linear would still work and I would give that a go too. I have always lifted linear and its done me well. I am just looking to following along with a program because if left to my own devices I tend to second guess myself and waste time flip flopping. I actually like linear because its so simple…no math to do before you work out :slight_smile: just beat your last :smiley:
I am just not sure how long linear would last. Numbers move up alot slower these days, lol.

So its usually recommended to do linear until you get stuck and then move on the the others? (westside, TTM, etc)

Also in regards to the speed work…I dont really like speed work either and if I did westside I would most likely do what Mahoney does.

Oh one thing I was thinking tho that might benefit me with westside is the maxing weekly. ( I havent read the whole program yet)

Maxing here and there this past year usually left me burnt out for a week or so…recovery after workouts was really poor and all my numbers would go down for about a week. I think it would be a good idea to do it more and let my body get used to it, and in figuring out the lift % it will force me to work closer to my max instead of what I ‘think’

I would recommend running Westside, the way its designed, or the Cube. Im only going off of personal experience, but both of the programs have yeilded results for me. The only change I made to the program was to add in an extra day specifically for back work. StormThe Beach has an awesome thread on this site dedicated to WS and Brandon Lillys E-book isnt all that expensive.

[quote]Chicksan wrote:
… or the Cube. [/quote]

or that ^^^^^

[quote]coyotegal wrote:
I think I will look further into Westside.

I saw some threads on it tho and people were saying how its hard to follow or easy to screw up because of the way it is written or something?
Any thoughts on this?

Is there one preferred template to use?

[/quote]

Not particularly easy to mess up, but it depends on how you read and think about it, as with everything. I would look at things Dave Tate has written in particular because as much as I love Louie Simmons, he can’t write very well–or clearly, rather. Dave has written and presented on the ideas behind Westside’s template and is a much better communicator, as well as being a kick ass coach. Louie is a better coach, but just can’t explain as clearly. Like the old example of the genius scientist who can’t step outside his lab working for the only moderately brilliant businessman who can understand and communicate ideas to everyone around the world.

Louie’s not that bad of course, but Dave’s just much clearer.

There are lots of different templates to use, but the best one to start into the program with is, in my humble opinion, the standard 4 day split (Max lower, Max upper, Dynamic Lower, Dynamic Upper, in that order). Read Dave Tate’s articles here (do an author search), and on elitefts.

Here is the exact template I used when I first began all those years ago. Written by Dave as an introduction:
http://articles.elitefts.com/training-articles/programs/under-the-bar-9-week-basic-training-program/

I would highly suggest having that beginner template printed off and in hand to look at while you read his articles. You will begin to see how things match up if you do.

That being said, You do not have to do good mornings to a 1 rep max. Most including Dave have advocated a 3 rep max for GMs now. You don’t even have to board press for bench day, just follow the principles and look at how it is laid out and the reasons for that as you read Dave’s stuff. That will clear a lot of questions up.

[quote]coyotegal wrote:
I am sure linear would still work and I would give that a go too. I have always lifted linear and its done me well. I am just looking to following along with a program because if left to my own devices I tend to second guess myself and waste time flip flopping. I actually like linear because its so simple…no math to do before you work out :slight_smile: just beat your last :smiley:
I am just not sure how long linear would last. Numbers move up alot slower these days, lol.

So its usually recommended to do linear until you get stuck and then move on the the others? (westside, TTM, etc)

Also in regards to the speed work…I dont really like speed work either and if I did westside I would most likely do what Mahoney does.[/quote]

Not necessarily recommended to do that, now. You just don’t need to be a complete newb to weights trying to do Westside :slight_smile:

As far as what you said earlier about getting rusty with a movement if you don’t do it–you can still practice the movements, or close variations of them in Westside. Certain things are changeable, like you can free squat instead of box squat–and many do. Or you can add a small volume of speed deadlifts on dynamic lower day to practice the technique of deadlifting and keep from getting rusty. Of course when you do this it would be low volume and you would still keep the other lifts as your focus, but you’d get some practice with the lift you are needing to practice technically speaking.

Besides, it’s always easier to drill technique under lighter less intimidating loads than trying to change something for the first time at 95% of your best record.

Speed work is not necessary if it doesn’t give you results. If it does give you results though, you should probably do it even if you don’t like it. Results, after all, is what a PL meet is all about.