T Nation

Dbol and Quality of Gains?


#1

I've heard that dbol gains will come and go, that you'll keep mayby 20% of what you gain, true? I'm looking at a dbol & deca cycle for 6 wks, as something manageable before I start drugs that need more attention like tren or whatever. Would the combo add some synergy and give me a decent amount of quality gains?

Also, if anybody can reccomend me the form of deca wtih the shortest ester so that I can some gains from the deca side as I usually need about 3-4 weeks of beigin on deca before I start gaining from that, that would be great, thanks.


#2

Short deca = NPP


#3

... Why Nandrolone?

And, why not Test?


#4

I'm probably going to want to add some test to the mix unless i want a limp noodle>


#5

Don't do a dbol deca cycle especially not for your first cycle. Just don't do it.


#6

I am still so confused why everybody tries their hardest not to use test?

I dont get it why the fear?

Test is the Prime male androgen...surely it has to be the safest (or at least one of) aas used moderately with appropriote ancilliaries and will give you the best overall gains.

Beats the hell outa me me.


#7

meh,

dbol is 3X androgenic and anabolic as test.....should do the job, i'd think. Why would test be better? Would the side effects be worse w/ test?


#8

Did you read that somewhere?


#9

yeah, from steroidology on the roid profiles...

it does mention that the side effects for dbol will be a bit worse, and that the anabolic effects are greater as well. So, I guess I answered my own question then....that Test would be safer and easier to deal with as well as give longer lasting gains.


#10

Yeah just be careful of what you read, you might die of a misprint [my favorite Benjamin Franklin quote]. Seriously I dont know where some of these profiles get their statistic. Dbol has its place and I use it religiously pre workout but just know the lay of the land


#11

Should do the job?...lol

Because the old anabolic:adrogenic ratios are based on old skewed logic which doesnt really work.

This has been written about before.

Everyone knows test builds more muscle than any other AAS...Full stop.

Test+dbol...forget deca

Plus whatever you get to stop the side effects of the test will work for the dbol...

Not the case with nandrolone mate.

Plus if you want your dick to work 100% properly...you will need the test. It works with the dbol...but not 100% properly.

Also think about it from a health perspective...we run on testosterone...our body relies on it to function, surely taking it away cant be that good now can it?


#12

Your intentions are good. But this is a pretty shitty post. Too much of your opinion presented as fact.


#13

True bones thanks. Sorry I'll differentiate between fact, theory and my experiences. Rushed through too much.

Testosterone works on mixed activity both AR (Androgen Receptor) mediated and non AR mediated.

Deca is mostly AR mediated and dbol is mostly Non AR mediated.

Most compunds are heavily biased in one direction when it comes to building muscle (AR or non AR) this is why testosterone works so well milligram for milligram compared to everything else as you get more overall growth when you have both types of activity.

Deca + Dbol = AR mediated activation + Non AR mediated activation this is why this combination works well but now you can see if test has both...You can take just test for good overall growth and a simpler cycle and easier to control sides.

You can control the water retention of test and dbol both with adex and gyno with nolva.

For deca water retention some say letro is the best and adex doesnt help alot, some say adex helps, its a bit of a mixed bag conversion to estrogen being quite low but water retention still being there. Gyno from Deca is not so simple either.

Whether prolactin, progestanaic or somehow estrogen related nolva/adex seems not to help in most cases. Caber and bromo seem to be used alot but maybe someone with more experience on Deca and deca gyno can help the op with advice here, I havnt had experience with this.

The objest is to prevent gyno at all costs so you want to have these things on hand at least!

The quality of gains in both cases will probably be somewhat watery depending how your body takes the compounds so you probably want to take ancilarys to reduce estrogen+water retention so you are more solid (these are AI's-aromatase inhibitors).

Sexually when on a test cycle everything works fine (better actually as long as your estrogen is not too high or too low) but when using dbol as prime androgen i myself personally am up and down depending when I take the tablets = its not consistent. Sometimes it was difficult for me to ejaculate and stay hard at certain times throughout the day/night if having sex.

I suspect this is because of the short half life of the dbol and fluctuating blood levels but cant be 100%.

If you do a deca+dbol cycle, deca is not very androgenic so probably wont support your sexual ability and your body will rely then most likely on the dbol for that as your natural test will be shutdown.

Recovery can apparently be difficult after a deca cycle as well. Again something I havent experienced but maybe soeone else can fill in some deca pct info for the op.

And 1st cycle + the potential complications of a dbol+deca cycle = bad idea.

Test or test+dbol if you must would be the better options.


#14

Having tried deca, I am not a huge fan.

But dont forget people, HCG can be used as a "test base" you can run just fine on your own test and estrogen production.

I did test only or test and dbol for my first few cycles, I was quite pleased, its very manageable and effective, dbol with its more potent estrogen compounds and tendencies towards absolutely crippling calf and back pumps can be more problematic for some.

But if you cant handle little hiccups like that you probably have no business playing with these drugs in the first place.


#15

Ill just say one thing. In a short cycle, lets say no more than 8 weeks. Dbol is a viable replacement for testosterone. Ive used dbol at 20mg per day pre workout while using tren. 1 daily low dose of dbol was plenty to keep me feeling normal. That tren/dbol cycle was the most comfortable cycle ive done to date.

For a long cycle this isnt feasible because staying on an oral steroid for multiple months is an unnecessary risk IMO


#16

Recommendinng an oral cycle is probably a bad idea, but dbol at 20mg a day for 2 or 3 months I don't think will mess with liver values much. Doing a bunch of anadrol or some oral cycle from steroids.com I'm sure is risky though. Dbol with hcg can keep libido up, but some people might need more estrogen.


#17

smith machine, straight up thanks for taking the time to write that post (and others). You pretty much more than anyone else on this forum write long and useful/helpful/informative posts in a lot of threads, and barely anyone thanks you for it. Good effort


#18

I have been taking dbol for the past 6-7 months on average 4 times a week. I take 40mg pre workout. During this time I've had my liver values checked. Both times including 6 weeks ago [after being on this dbol protocol for 5 months+] my liver values were right in the middle of normal range.

I have long asserted that the greatest myth in the AAS game is the danger of taking oral 17AA's for more than 6 weeks. You'll never sell me on that.
Now equally true what Im sure is no doubt assisting me with keeping me liver so normal is the infrequency of my dbol usage, viz., 4 times per week. Bill Roberts had some interesting conjecture about this and if I can find his post I will link it.

But basically I take dbol as a training booster and I leave it to my injectables to cover the rest. Like keeping my levels stable and consistent. Sure there is spike when I take the dbol but given the half life Im pretty much cleared out by the next morning.

Compare this to someone who takes dbol in smaller quantities say 5-10mg at a time but spreads it out throughout the day in theory to keep blood levels stable. This individual is asking his liver to process the dbol 4 times a day 28 times a week compared to my 4 times a week. Even if my quantity is higher.

Again Bill had the much more interesting and educated comments on duration vs quantity vs frequency


#19

@smith machine--

I've got on hand plenty of nolva/ adex and can get caber/bromo/ HCG as well. Would a test/deca cycle be that bad of an idea if I put enough test in to cover the deca sides? I really want to try deca if you haven't noticed :slightly_smiling:


#20

Im not smith machine but I'll answer you anyway. No amount of test will cover the deca sides. Thats what in theory your caber would be for