T Nation

DB Hammer

hi guys, im fairly new to this website & just thought i’d ask a question I think a lot of people are asking…

is db’s complications of methods really needed?

I recently brought the book & although im realised (after a few reads) that it IS alot easier than it seems at first, cant this be acheived through a intergration of methods though???

say for instance, most people go from one cycle to another realising their weaknesses & bring up a weakness through observation. I.e. snatch 75% of c&j & back squat 150% of c&j = lacking in speed & or technique.

As for the speed squat & such, timed squats with varying % can achieve whats he’s perscribing anyway (for absorbtion of power anyway)??

I like the whole idea & have read many things on the web but I feel it gets slated to much by big names (whereas respected coaches usually never slate other coaches for obvious reasons)

The only reason im so inquistive (like the rest of us striving wannabe athletes) is that I dont want to be left behind!

I recently read lyn mcdonald trashing his work & it made me think, can a program like power ascending/descending cover pretty much all bases? (assuming depth jump height is right, form is correct on lifts, speed of excution etc.) I know nuttal meantioned you cant do duration & rate together as it is too much on the CNS but croxdale & many others advocate complex training so unless you wana delve into pubmed who are you supposed to believe?I really dont wana jump into something like this where it seems to take so long to ‘tweak’ & figure the drop offs when once you know how much volume you can get by on ‘normal’ methods your gaining anyway. I think majority of informed trainers know how to work with overreaching/overtraining & since there are so many ways of monitering O.T. (BPM,vertical jump, reaction time, sleep/eating habits etc. etc.) is it really worth it for a up & coming sprinter/athlete?

any comments?

Brad

You’ve hit the nail on the head there - most of the things in the book have been put down by other coaches prior. It just gives a way of structuring the training based on weaknesses and a way to manage fatigue.

AREG is very easy to follow after a few sessions of doing it and it’s a good volume management system so I believe it’s a good way to train.

The only thing I can say is the system works and nothing comes easy. If this was the case we would all be elite athletes or damn near close in some respects. Everyone thinks they have it figured out. All this criticism which is expected (i.e. Lyle…are you serious…haha) but comes with no applicable proof.

The point is try it out and see if it works. Simple as that. His methods are not complicated but warranted to what qualities are trying to be brought up. They are normal to this system and necessary.

Its up to you. You seem to have lingering issues on that, it will simply be too much work. This is something you have to decide. As for i.e. mixing duration and rate. My answer is this: They are to different nueral firing patterns; one teaches to strain and the other quickly fire and relax. They say strength roots all…well applicable to duration and mag methods. If they can tell that strength work will have a carryover to speed of turnover and pure speed methods then I would like to see. This is why there is an advocate for not mixing these methods. It works for this system with the best results. Others do complex methods as you said then that is what works for them.

Last thing: I have to disagree that most trainers don’t have a hold on overtraining. I am assuming you are comparing AREG to cybernetic periodization or training by feel. Two totally different approaches. Volume is not even an issue with AREG. This is mostly the determining factor in encountering O.T. as well as intensity plays a role. AREG takes care of both.

What’s worth it for you is not worth it for someonelse.

Jeremy

‘‘lingering issues on that, it will simply be too much work’’

I am not afraid of hard work, I aspire to do very well in sprinting, I am in no way a elite athlete but I am always looking to improve & since on some weeks I put in 10-12 sessions a week (& can tolerate it) I know I work hard & anything that is put in front of me I will have a go at it.

I dont really understand the lyne comment but I did notice coach staley had a few ‘choice’ words about it & I thoroughly respect him as a coach, from what I have seen mel siff went against pretty much everything he’s said too.

I would like to have a stab at AREG & from the posts ant has done from his training log it is obvious it has worked for him (& many others too)

I was merely trying to get some opionions contrary to what I have read, as I said I already have the book (actually have two due to a mess up at EFTS if anyone wants to buy one)! I am intriqued by the ‘box’ analogy that I read from coolcolj & it makes a lot of sense.

since I also want to compete in 85kg for weightlifting (just ameuteur/fun as im 6’1 & 181lbs) I dont want to lose anything on my lifts so im a little apprehensive about dropping o.l.s in favouite of manual hamstring curls & light reactive squats as you can imagine. I know he meantions about olympic lifters should follow his methods more than anyone else, I feel this is something I could get out of the system & would be willing to try (I rarely have a spotter/training buddy so it makes iso squats/bench a major problem)! could anybody illustrate?

Brad

Yeah it seems complicated but it isn’t really that complicated once you figured it out. My only compliant is the lack of detail on how to set up the templates properly. For an example, the power prep template, DB didn’t give much of a guideline of how to set it up and I was basically figuring it out on my own and kinda wasting my time trying to mix and match before I thought it was the right way to do it. His Q&A sometimes helped though. Good thing I saved everything before DB took it out for the forum that’s coming on Dec 1. You probably will have to read the book 20 times before you get hang of the word termnology and another 20 times before you finally understand the basic of the training system and another 20 times before you understand every word of it. I’d say it was worth it but could have be better done on how to set up the template in more details whenever he gives out once in a while.

I was doing power prep template that DB gave out in his article:

Block 1
(1) Session 1: Heavy Eccentrics (N x 5-9 seconds. Control as much weight as possible with a soft touch down to support pins/apparatus.)
(2) Session 2: Iso-Miometrics (N x 6-10 reps. 3 second iso-pause between each positive contraction. Emphasis on acceleration out of pause- EXPLODE!)
Block 2
(1) Session 1: Max Miometrics (N x 1 rep. Bar lifted from rested position at mid-point of movement. Stress the reduction of time between when you begin to apply force to the bar and when the bar actually begins to move! BLAST it up!)
(2) Session2: Oscillatory-Isometrics (N x 25-40 seconds. Focus on achieving as much tension as possible before you strive for as much relaxation as possible. Rebound action should come with minimal effort. Flex?release?spring!)
Program Guidelines: (Alternate from Block 1 to Block 2 every week for 4-6 weeks)

It wasn’t much to go on from there. I’m talking about exercise selection guideline. I wasn’t sure at first if DB meant heavy eccentric for one exercise or multiple exerises in one session??? At the end I just stick with one heavy eccentric exericse and 2-3 different exercises for An-2. DB doesn’t always make it clear like CT,CW and others do. it’s also impossible to do exercises for time on my own unless I get a programable watch that vibrates when it’s time to start and when it ends. That would greatly help. I don’t know if there’s a watch like that. It isn’t easy to set up if you don’t have the stuff that you need to make it a successful “program”. Commerical gym sucks bad. it’s almost impossible to do the mulitple exercises rotation without anyone else taking over them while I’m doing other exercises plus there are some exercises that aren’t available. Having my own home gym with the stuff that i need would be much better. No walking all the way from one side of the building to another side of the building and coming back to see that someone has taken over the only power rack they had.

I think DB’s system works but it isn’t easy to set it up in a commerical gym.

[quote]jrdthreed wrote:
All this criticism which is expected (i.e. Lyle…are you serious…haha) but comes with no applicable proof.
[/quote]

I’m sorry, but the burden of proof is on you guys, er, DB. What “applicable proof” is there of his methods working besides the word of those pimping his products? Don’t ask for others to prove that your work is invalid when you can provide no proof yourself that it works.

I think the methods are overcomplicated but not necessarily poor. I will agree with Jeremy in that one should give it a shot. Just devote a minor training cycle (8-12 weeks) to it and see if you like it. If so, take what you’ve learned and use it. If not, move on.

[quote]RickJames wrote:

I’m sorry, but the burden of proof is on you guys, er, DB. What “applicable proof” is there of his methods working besides the word of those pimping his products? Don’t ask for others to prove that your work is invalid when you can provide no proof yourself that it works.

Rick not sure what you mean by pimping his products???

What exactly is proof that this works or something else works. Specific gains or do you want numbers? If someones lift goes up X amount of weight or speed increases X amount in a certain time frame does this qualify as “applicable proof”?

This training has been thrown out there. Whether someone tries it or not is up to them as you stated. Lets get real if someone is to bring a little criticism, let them not be generic in their points.

‘‘My only compliant is the lack of detail on how to set up the templates properly. For an example, the power prep template, DB didn’t give much of a guideline of how to set it up and I was basically figuring it out on my own and kinda wasting my time trying to mix and match before I thought it was the right way to do it.’’

I thought this too so basically im just trying to apply a small amount peice by peice (mainly some of the mag methods as Iknow this is my weakness) & once i’ve gone over the factor arrangement alittle more so im confident i’ll put a whole template tegether (ye)!a whole load of the method he puts across I like alot but there just seemed a fuzzy line in how to apply it (probably just me not reading properly lol), anyway I wana give this a shot & see if I can get the drop offs right & then go from there. If not, i’ll go with louie’s ol from the 'what if’article as i like the idea of using westsides methods (i’ve got pretty much all the video’s before I switched over to ol so it will be ideal)!

Brad